# British study "proving" vaccinations are linked to autism an admitted fraud. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 6, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571 "2011-01-06T02:47:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/21 "2011-01-06T20:29:21Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Open for investigation. No, not really. If you added up all the antigens that one is exposed to in an entire _lifetime_ of vaccinations, it is still a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of antigens you’re exposed to _in a single day._ I suppose you could make the argument that the majority of those antigens don’t find their way _directly_ into the bloodstream, but the amount that does through the lungs, food, and the occasional cut and scrape is still orders of magnitude more than vaccinations. > [@Leon497](#): > > We also do know that someone who gets a childhood disease later in life, well it is a lot worse in effects and damage, seeming to help prove the point. Also shows why they can’t find bad causes in the shot itself but yet this did not happen much 50 years ago. I think I have the answer right. You’re falling victim to the same faulty premise a lot of anti-vaxxers do, which is “A then B, therefore A causes B.” Correlation (or I guess in this cause lack of correlation, since you’re arguing it’s a lack of getting the disease causing the problems,) does not equal causation. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/22 "2011-01-06T21:44:42Z")
> [@Leon497](#): > > This could explain all the new cancers too, the childhood diseases act like a vaccine themselves for other more serious diseases. It would explain everything we see in one swoop, therefore is likely correct. Why not go for the idea that “all the new cancers” (which are what, exactly?\*) are caused by plastics, pesticides or cellphones (whose usage could be linked to rising incidence/increased awareness of whatever disease one would like to blame them for)? That’d “explain everything” if it wasn’t for the fact that correlation does not equal causation in those instances either. \*Interesting article in the N.Y. Times recently about the discovery of cancer in mummies and a study showing its prevalence in such artifacts is about what we’d expect given modern cancer rates. We have more awareness of cancer in modern times because it’s a likelier cause of death than in the old days, when epidermics of infectious disease and sepsis killed people at a relatively young age before cancer had a chance to develop. \*\*also, some infectious diseases actually trigger cancer in their victims, as in the case of human papillomavirus, Epstein-Barr virus and HIV. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/23 "2011-01-06T23:49:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Mumps, measles, polio, pertussis, and so on can be deadly diseases. This ain’t like chicken pox where you’re sick for a week and then get over it. Kids DIE from these things. You just don’t realize it, because you’ve never seen a kid die from measles. And that’s because kids are vaccinated against measles. Chicken pox ain’t exactly a walk in the park, either. The mortality is about 6.7 cases per 100,000, but it can cause all kinds of virus-related nastiness, such as meningitis, otitis, arthritis, pneumonia, aw hell. [I’ll just provide a cite.](http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/800546-overview) That’s not including the increased risk of shingles and other [zoster-related problems](http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1132465-overview) that can crop up later in life. Thanks all the same, but I’ll just take my shots. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/24 "2011-01-06T23:57:50Z")
[One of the best studies](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/117/4/1028) ever done on the alleged rise in autism rates. The authors of the study conclude: > [@](#): > > Prevalence findings from special education data do not support the claim of an autism epidemic because the administrative prevalence figures for most states are well below epidemiological estimates. The growing administrative prevalence of autism from 1994 to 2003 was associated with corresponding declines in the usage of other diagnostic categories. So as autism rates went up the rates of other similar diseases declined. That makes more sense than vaccination somehow triggers autism. Wakefield is one of the evil bastards of our time. He ought be in jail for malpractice. Part of his motivation for the original study was to provide a justification of his new and improved MMR vaccine. Greedy, incompetent creep. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/25 "2011-01-07T01:24:52Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Andrew Wakefield should be held criminally responsible for the deaths that can be attributed to the hysteria causewd by his “study.” But the anti-vaxxers don’t care. I have already been drawn into a debate with one who is using the “too many too soon” argument. Right on! I was mentally preparing a post that he should be prosecuted for manslaughter for the kids (fortunately not many) who have died. I have been reading Ben Goldacre’s Bad Science for a few years now and had the pleasure of hearing him in person a couple months ago. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/26 "2011-01-07T02:46:42Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > holy shit, that’s the best thing I’ve seen all week. Charlie Brooker is a God. He is a columnist for The Guardian, if you want to read him. He also has a show called ScreenWipe where he does to TV what he does to News in NewsWipe (ScreenWipe actually came first). There’s also a single episode GamesWipe somewhere for video games. He also has a rather amusing panel show about TV called “You Have Been Watching”. He also broke the hearts of millions of men in the UK by marrying Konnie Huq, one of the foxiest ladies to have ever presented the kids TV show “Blue Peter”. THE BASTARD. SHE WAS MINE. I love Charlie Brooker. He’s up there with Louis Theroux as far as I am concerned. I’m a heterosexual male, but given the chance I’d probably bum either of them. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/27 "2011-01-07T10:25:17Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I love Charlie Brooker. He’s up there with Louis Theroux as far as I am concerned. I’m a heterosexual male, but given the chance I’d probably bum either of them. I suspect they both would let you if you did it in an ironic way and they could make a program segment out of it. 😃 But yes, I third Charlie Brooker and Ben Goldacre. Both, in their way battle manfully against the fuzzy thinking in science and the barely hidden hypocrisy and contempt in the media. [boast] I’ve got signed copies of “bad science” and “the big bang” by Simon Singh as a “thank you” when I donated to the “[Sense about Science](http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/71/)” libel campaign recently. Those in the UK fond of rationality and free speech might want to check that out [/boast] ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/28 "2011-01-07T14:55:03Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > No, not really. Yes, really. > [@](#): > > If you added up all the antigens that one is exposed to in an entire _lifetime_ of vaccinations, it is still a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of antigens you’re exposed to _in a single day._ Interesting assertion. Quite possibly true. Do you have proof? No? Then It. Is. Open. For. Investigation. Truthfully, it’s probably a dry hole, but there’s no reason you can’t investigate it. In context of the above assertions remarked upon by **Sattua** , one part was provably false, the other is _testable_. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/29 "2011-01-07T15:49:03Z")
But wait, what about, uh, [“autism-like symptoms?”](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87974932) > [@](#): > > Further testing determined Hannah had an underlying disorder in her cells — a mitochondrial disease. That can cause symptoms similar to autism. And in its ruling, the government said it was **possible** that the vaccines Hannah received \*\*may have \*\*exacerbated that disorder. Bolding mine. I still don’t quite get this case. The Big G agrees to a settlement, which only gives credence to the anti-vaxxers, espcially with the lawyer crowing about how they admitted the link. Shoulda squashed this bug, but I guess that wasn’t an option. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/30 "2011-01-07T15:50:19Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Interesting assertion. Quite possibly true. Do you have proof? No? Then It. Is. Open. For. Investigation. It’s already been investigated, and in far more scientific settings than a message board. Try [here](http://immunobiology.arizona.edu/files/AntibodyDiversity.pdf), [here](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/109/1/124) and [here](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8612345). They look at how many antibodies are created and how many can be created to get an idea about the number of antigens you’re exposed to in your life. It’s estimated that humans can generate about 10 billion different antibodies. Over a lifetime, in response to exposure to antigens, people make between 1 and 100 _million different antibodies._ How many does the vaccine schedule produce? Thirty. In theory, infants have the capacity to respond to 10,000 vaccines at the same time. If the 11 recommended vaccines were given all at the same time, their immune systems would use 0.1% of their capacity to process them. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/31 "2011-01-07T16:28:46Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > But wait, what about, uh, [“autism-like symptoms?”](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87974932) Bolding mine. > > I still don’t quite get this case. The Big G agrees to a settlement, which only gives credence to the anti-vaxxers, espcially with the lawyer crowing about how they admitted the link. Shoulda squashed this bug, but I guess that wasn’t an option. . . . The Poling case was just a bad ruling according to one of the bravest men of our time: > [@](#): > > [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904) > > Like the Werderitsh decision, the VICP’s concession to Hannah Poling was poorly reasoned. First, whereas it is clear that natural infections can exacerbate symptoms of encephalopathy in patients with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies, no clear evidence exists that vaccines cause similar exacerbations. Indeed, because children with such deficiencies are particularly susceptible to infections, it is recommended that they receive all vaccines. > > - > > Fourth, without data that clearly exonerate vaccines, it could be argued that children with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies might have a lower risk of exacerbations if vaccines were withheld, delayed, or separated. But such changes would come at a price. Even spacing out vaccinations would increase the period during which children were susceptible to natural infections, giving a theoretical risk from vaccines priority over a known risk from vaccine-preventable diseases. These diseases aren’t merely historical: pneumococcus, varicella, and pertussis are still common in the United States. Recent measles outbreaks in California, Arizona, and Wisconsin among children whose parents had chosen not to vaccinate them show the real risks of public distrust of immunization. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/32 "2011-01-07T18:06:25Z")
> [@Peeta\_Mellark](#): > > It’s already been investigated, and in far more scientific settings than a message board. Try [here](http://immunobiology.arizona.edu/files/AntibodyDiversity.pdf), [here](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/109/1/124) and [here](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8612345). They look at how many antibodies are created and how many can be created to get an idea about the number of antigens you’re exposed to in your life. > > It’s estimated that humans can generate about 10 billion different antibodies. Over a lifetime, in response to exposure to antigens, people make between 1 and 100 _million different antibodies._ How many does the vaccine schedule produce? Thirty. In theory, infants have the capacity to respond to 10,000 vaccines at the same time. If the 11 recommended vaccines were given all at the same time, their immune systems would use 0.1% of their capacity to process them. Ah. New information I didn’t have previously. Thank you. OTOH, that kinda proves my point that it was testable, but clearly I didn’t kow that it had been tested. Ignorance fought, **Peeta**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/33 "2011-01-07T18:21:46Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The Poling case was just a bad ruling according to one of the bravest men of our time: From the link: > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, in recent years the VICP seems to have turned its back on science. Well that explains it. ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/34 "2011-01-08T02:01:25Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Charlie Brooker is a God. He is a columnist for The Guardian, if you want to read him. He also has a show called ScreenWipe where he does to TV what he does to News in NewsWipe (ScreenWipe actually came first). There’s also a single episode GamesWipe somewhere for video games. He also has a rather amusing panel show about TV called “You Have Been Watching”. > > He also broke the hearts of millions of men in the UK by marrying Konnie Huq, one of the foxiest ladies to have ever presented the kids TV show “Blue Peter”. THE BASTARD. SHE WAS MINE. > > I love Charlie Brooker. He’s up there with Louis Theroux as far as I am concerned. I’m a heterosexual male, but given the chance I’d probably bum either of them. Before he was on the TV he was a games journalist. I used to read PC Zone and his articles were always the funniest. The mag got pulled from the shelves twice. Once because of his ‘cruelty zoo’ article which was supposed to be a parody of Lara Croft but, as they were forced to remove all references to her, it just came across as a bit sick. The second time the mag got pulled had nothing to do with CB. Whoever compiled the cover disk added a ton of custom made DOOM maps he’d pulled from the internet. One of the levels contained porn (and was obviously named). Oops. I miss PC Zone. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/35 "2011-01-08T03:25:40Z")
I’m on a Washington State autism alias, and there’s plenty of people still buying into the autism is caused by vaccines “even if it’s not proved yet.” I mean, I’d love to be able to sue someone for “causing” my daughter’s autism too but let’s stop smoking crack based on some evil bastard’s bullshit get rich quick scheme off the back of a not insignificant number of kids that died because their ignorant parents bought into the dream. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571/36 "2011-01-08T06:17:02Z")
This isn’t “news” - it’s been in the public media for a while. I’m glad, still, to see stupid ignorance rebuked. …but I still tease my notoriously medically-OCD mother when she nags me every year to get a flu shot “Nah…It’ll just give me autism.” 😃 //gets the flu vaccine every year because it makes sense, not because of nagging mother ///the above tease still sends her into hysterics [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-study-proving-vaccinations-are-linked-to-autism-an-admitted-fraud/566571.md?page=1)