# British things that don't use the country's name **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 31, 2002, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001 "2002-03-31T01:27:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/41 "2002-04-02T13:53:45Z")
jjimm writes: \> Elsewhere they’re called English muffins. In Britain (England \> and Wales at least) they’re just called muffins. Well, no, not quite. The nearest thing to what are called “English muffins” in the U.S. are what are called “crumpets” in the U.K. Crumpets (English muffins in the U.S.) are dry things with lots of holes in them. The things called “muffins” in the U.K. are spongier, although they are also flat and are also buttered and toasted before being eaten. I have no idea what the things referred to as just “muffins” in the U.S. (which are big puffy things that you don’t toast, since they come already baked) are called in the U.K. I don’t recall ever seeing them there. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/42 "2002-04-02T13:57:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*Why is that a problem for you? Don’t you just put it in the box for “UK” and let the Royal Mail sort it out at our end? If you went to the destination you’d probably find there were only about ten houses in the village and the local postie knew them all by name (how else would it work). Let’s say I was posting a letter to an outback destination in Australia and it began “Bill’s Place” I’d just assume it was going to a small town, not that they couldn’t count or something. \*\* It’s not a problem. I think **TLD** was relating an anecdote for our shared amusement, not attacking the UK. Dot com slightly peeves me, but it’s tolerable considering most websites are situated in the US. It’d be much more inconvenient to add .us to most everything. > [@](#): > > I’m sorry, that isn’t a good enough reason. Not at all. So they were first, big deal, that was a while ago and now many other countries do it. While it may be the initial reason, there is clearly (in my mind) more to it than that nowadays. Although we could apply the logic of some other people and argue for the opposite… Cf Australia:[ul][li]Australia Post[/li][li]The Australian Defence Force[/li][li]Royal Automobile Club of Australia[/ul] [/li](Brought to you by the planet that calls its beauty contest winners “Miss Universe”.) ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/43 "2002-04-02T16:03:47Z")
Just to complicate matters , those small flat things with lots of holes in them are called “pieklets” in the English Midlands . ---
**Author:** ![SavageNarce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@SavageNarce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SavageNarce)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/44 "2002-04-02T16:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barton \* > \*\*‘The World Series’ comes to mind as an example of American arrogance. \*\* Well… no. The World Series got its name from the same source as the World Almanac: sponsorship by the New York “World”. Joseph Pulitzer, publisher of the World, might have liked to claim global sovereignty for both his Almanac and the Baseball contest, but he didn’t. Good thing he didn’t publish “Mad” magazine! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/45 "2002-04-02T18:33:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > **The nearest thing to what are called “English muffins” in the U.S. are what are called “crumpets” in the U.K.** What is that thing you get with an Egg McMuffin Burger[sup]TM[/sup] then? I thought it was an English Muffin. It’s what in the UK one would call simply a muffin. In the UK, crumpets are indeed those yellow bizarre things full of holes that look like a bathroom sponge. You call _them_ English muffins? BTW both muffins and crumpets are pre-baked - we just toast them because they’re nicer that way. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/46 "2002-04-02T18:47:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SavageNarce \* > **The World Series got its name from the same source as the World Almanac: sponsorship by the New York “World”.** Not true **SavageNarce** - at least not according to [snopes](http://www.snopes2.com/). Just enter world series in the search field and go from there. It’s been debunked on these boards too. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/47 "2002-04-02T18:51:43Z")
OK, how about when you’re trying to buy something online and, even though the US supplier claims to accept international orders, the form insists that you supply a State and a ZIP code. It happens all the time. Neither field can be left blank, but if you try to enter a postal code in your own format it won’t let you because the field is hardcoded to accept numerical ZIP-format only. I’ve also tried ordering stuff from America by phone and the person at the other end genuinely doesn’t understand that because you live outside the USA you don’t use ZIP codes. What could be more arrogant than refusing to do business unless the buyer changes their entire geographical and postal system to match the sender’s? IIRC the British postal system was the first to use postal codes but we didn’t force the rest of you to adopt our format even though it’s a very efficient one (as Mr Wright has explained). It’s interesting that nobody here has be able (or has even attempted) to show why “NASA” isn’t arrogant but “The Boat Race” is. The most sensible posts here have explained that every country tailors its descriptions to the expectations of its audience - if they know what organisation you represent why should you add extra words to its name to reassure someone else that you’re not being arrogant? I can’t decide whether people who are arguing that “you change and do it our way or else we’ll call you arrogant” have an inferiority complex or else are just paranoid. Why not just live and let live? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/48 "2002-04-02T21:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rayne Man \* > \*\*Just to complicate matters , those small flat things with lots of holes in them are called “pieklets” in the English Midlands . \*\* Pikelets are generally flatter than crumpets, but otherwise very similar. The ‘muffins’ used by McD’s for the egg McMuffin are _similar_ to ordinary (English)muffins but they are lighter, more spongy and generally less substantial. Let’s not get started on _biscuits_. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/49 "2002-04-02T21:20:36Z")
Oh, and the British postcode system sucks, _sucks_ Y’hear me? I do a fair bit of database programming and there’s no easy way to parse a postcode that is structured thus: Two letters denoting town Followed by one or more numbers denoting an area within that town (let’s call it ‘district’) followed by a space that not everybody bothers to include followed by a number (or is it more than one sometimes?) denoting an area within district followed by a pair of letters that denote part of a street, or sometimes a whole street (if it’s a small one), or an apartment block, or part of an apartment block. Except Large cities like London and Birmingham, where the structure is so different it makes your brain bleed. Gaaah!, try to express that in a set of immutable rules; it’s a structured code, but one that seems tailored to be meaningful only to humans or to a machine that carries the entire postcode\>address table. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/50 "2002-04-02T21:54:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > IIRC the British postal system was the first to use postal codes but we didn’t force the rest of you to adopt our format even though it’s a very efficient one (as Mr Wright has explained). I’m fairly sure the US zip codes predate other countries’ postal codes. It was first instituted in 1964, I think. In fact, other countries generally came out with better postal codes than the US, learning from the limitations of zip codes. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/51 "2002-04-02T22:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\* > Why is that a problem for you? Don’t you just put it in the box for “UK” and let the Royal Mail sort it out at our end? If you went to the destination you’d probably find there were only about ten houses in the village and the local postie knew them all by name (how else would it work). Let’s say I was posting a letter to an outback destination in Australia and it began “Bill’s Place” I’d just assume it was going to a small town, not that they couldn’t count or something. \*\* A problem? Trust me, I’m not losing any sleep over it. I actually kinda _like_ this form of addressing. It’s quaint. And yes, I do just bung 'em in the UK box. Actually I don’t even do that. I bung 'em in the Overseas box and let some other bugger worry about it. The point I was getting at was that while many of these addresses are the real thing, some of them look so heavy-handed and contrived that you can almost be certain it’s going to some pretentious wanker who lives on a suburban street in a large town. Also, I was taking the chance to have a friendly dig at my Pommy cousins. 😃 You’re right about the Australian example though. You could post a letter from anywhere in the world to my mother by writing: [TLD’s mum’s name] Gooloogong Australia …and it would get there, even without the state and postcode on it. ---
**Author:** ![SavageNarce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@SavageNarce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SavageNarce)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/52 "2002-04-03T02:51:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*Not true **SavageNarce** - at least not according to [snopes](http://www.snopes2.com/). Just enter world series in the search field and go from there. It’s been debunked on these boards too. \*\* I stand corrected. So I guess the original post must have been correct: Americans **are** arrogant. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/53 "2002-04-03T06:09:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > \*\* > I’m fairly sure the US zip codes predate other countries’ postal codes. It was first instituted in 1964, I think. In fact, other countries generally came out with better postal codes than the US, learning from the limitations of zip codes. \*\* I remember this being true as well: American zip codes were the first. The advantage of US, UK, and Canadian postal codes over, for example Australian ones, is that they are much more detailed. In many cases, it’s possible to code a letter right down to an individual postman’s beat, or even a specific building. The disadvantage of these detailed codes is that they are longer, and the post office must trust its customers to correctly write out a long string of (meaningless to the customer) numeric or alpha-numeric code. In Australia, the post codes are only four digits long, the first digit denoting the state. This simple approach works well in reducing errors, but does have the disadvantage of being limited to an entire town or suburb. We didn’t adopt it because our postal administration is any smarter (God forbid! I work for those jerks), but because our smaller population allows us to do so, and also allowed us to continue without postcodes at all up until the 1970s, giving us time to examine the pros and cons of the overseas experience. Given Australia’s growth in population, and the increased capabilities of computerised sorting machinery, in the 90s we found the four digit postcode wasn’t enough. Reluctant to go to a long zip-style code, Australia Post has “borrowed” the US scheme **thanks guys** whereby business customers (who send the vast majority of mail these days) can put a barcode above the address. This barcode identifies an _individual address_, unique in the entire country -right down to one apartment or house. I wouldn’t be surprised if, with the decline in handwritten mail, this barcoding will eventually see the demise of zip and postcodes as we know them. They simply won’t be needed. [Apologies for the long and nerdy hijack -I’m a riot at parties!] ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/54 "2002-04-03T07:02:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \* > The advantage of US, UK, and Canadian postal codes over, for example Australian ones, is that they are much more detailed. In many cases, it’s possible to code a letter right down to an individual postman’s beat, or even a specific building. The US zip code is only at that level of detail if you use the zip+4 (9 digit code) which is not required on mail. The original 5 digit codes only identify the post office. You could ask 1000 Americans what their full 9 digit zip code was and find that perhaps only one of them knows it. Or maybe none will know it. Since it isn’t required, hardly anyone memorizes theirs. ---
**Author:** ![sirjamesp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@sirjamesp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirjamesp)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/55 "2002-04-03T07:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jezzaOZ \* > The Channel That would be the _English_ Channel - the official name is only abbreviated to “The Channel” because the French get all riled up otherwise. They think _they_ own it! Have you ever heard anything so crazy?! ---
**Author:** ![JS\_Princeton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JS\_Princeton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JS_Princeton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/56 "2002-04-03T16:05:22Z")
Universal Time (It’s English, y’know) ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/57 "2002-04-03T18:01:05Z")
The UK post codes consist of either six or seven characters . This is enough to pin an address down to either one street or even ( if it is a long one ) a section of a street. Most peopleI know can remember their post code and have no trouble in instantly recalling it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/58 "2002-04-05T16:37:17Z")
jjimm writes: \> What is that thing you get with an Egg McMuffin then? I \> thought it was an English Muffin. It’s what in the UK one would \> call simply a muffin. It’s hard to be sure, since Americans don’t think about this much, but I think that Americans would refer to both of the things called “muffins” and “crumpets” in the U.K. as “English muffins.” I don’t know if you can get things like what are used as the base for Egg McMuffins in the grocery stores in the U.S. There certainly are “English muffins” (i.e., crumpets) in grocery stores in the U.S. The commonest brand is Thomas’s. \> BTW both muffins and crumpets are pre-baked - we just toast \> them because they’re nicer that way. Actually, I wasn’t implying that muffins and crumpets in the U.K. aren’t baked. I was just saying that the things called “muffins” in the U.S. are big, puffy things that would definitely be screwed up by further baking. And you couldn’t fit them in the toaster anyway. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001/59 "2002-04-05T16:48:38Z")
This conversation made me go out and buy some genuine English muffins (there’s a British-owned supermarket chain in Dublin that sells them). They are _so_ nice. Thanks. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-things-that-dont-use-the-countrys-name/101001.md?page=2)