# British Troops Can't train in cold weather (Health and Safety regs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 27, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395 "2014-02-27T07:33:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/1 "2014-02-27T07:33:32Z")
What ever happened to the British stiff upper lip? 😃 They’re going to be SOL in the next war. [http://www.capitalbay.com/latest-news1/478207-british-soldiers-banned-from-training-for-snowy-conditions-at-norwegian-base-because-health-and-safety-rules-deem-it-too-cold.html](http://www.capitalbay.com/latest-news1/478207-british-soldiers-banned-from-training-for-snowy-conditions-at-norwegian-base-because-health-and-safety-rules-deem-it-too-cold.html) I know there’s got to be more to this story. The Brits haven’t gone this soft since fighting for Monty and Mountbatten. The English will is legendary. I’m not sure what weather conditions the US Rangers avoid in training. Their Mountaineering course is in Camp Merrill, Ga. [They also train in Alaska](http://www.dvidshub.net/news/94480/ranger-instructors-hone-mountaineering-skills-alaska#.Uw7nmoXIaSo). They may hide out in the barracks too when it’s below -20. Wear their PJ’s and curl up in their warm blankey. 🆒 > [@](#): > > Locals at the Allied Training Centre in Porsanger in Norway said they were stunned that while Norwegian troops were out in -25C weather, the Brits were being kept in the warm because of the army rules. > > The base commanding officer Lieutenant Colonel Trond Thomassen confirmed: 'British officers are not in a position to train with large divisions at Porsanger, where the temperature drops to 25 degrees below zero. > > British soldiers are being banned by health and safety rules from training at a military base in the Arctic circle - because it’s too cold. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/2 "2014-02-27T09:07:53Z")
Don’t know what your source for this story is. It isn’t mentioned even by the Daily Mail who would be all over this if it was true. ([here’s the Daily Mail piece - nice photos)](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2291402/Royal-Marines-Reserve-commandos-test-mettle-warfare-training-22C-Arctic-Circle.html). I do note, however, that they are Royal Marine _Reserves_, ie civilians/part-time soldiers. Perhaps they operate under different rules from regular soldiers in peace time as they have to return to their day jobs after training. The British Army have been accused of many things over the centuries. Not sure soft is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/3 "2014-02-27T09:09:19Z")
Put those Norwegians in the middle of a 42C desert, and we’ll how hard \*they \*train. Working in extreme weather conditions isn’t just a matter of putting on mittens; it takes years of acclimation. I’m not surprised the poor Brits don’t do as well as the Nordics. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/4 "2014-02-27T09:17:01Z")
I was thinking the same thing. British soldiers are known for getting on with the job no matter what the circumstances. The only way to get troops ready for cold weather combat is to get them out there and acclimated. I’ve read books about the Norwegian and Finnish ski troops in WWII. Ski troops are very fast and highly mobile. They can do some serious damage. The Soviets learned that lesson the hard way in WWII. > [@](#): > > Ski troops played a key role in the successes of the Finnish war effort against the Soviet Union during the Winter War in 1939. Forested, rural terrain with no roads was used by Finnish ski troops with great success against the advancing mechanized Soviet troops. Most notably, in Battle of Suomussalmi, two Soviet mechanized divisions (45,000 men) were annihilated by three Finnish regiments (11,000 men). > **[Ski warfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_warfare)** > > Ski warfare is the use of ski-equipped troops in war. > Ski warfare is first recorded by the Danish historian Saxo Grammaticus in the 13th century. During the Battle of Oslo in 1161, Norwegian troops used skis for reconnoitering. They were also used in 1452 in Sweden, and in the 15th to 17th centuries by various other Scandinavian countries. Norwegian Captain Jens Emahusen wrote a military ski manual Skiloperegglement in 1733. In 1767, military ski competitions began. They evolved into the biathlo... I think the article was making the point that money and resources were spent sending the British units to Norway for training. But then because it was below -20 they weren’t allowed to train. A big waste of resources. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/5 "2014-02-27T09:41:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Put those Norwegians in the middle of a 42C desert, and we’ll how hard \*they \*train. > > Working in extreme weather conditions isn’t just a matter of putting on mittens; it takes years of acclimation. I’m not surprised the poor Brits don’t do as well as the Nordics. Great that Afghanistan is not known for[extreme cold weather then](http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2012221102246504375.html). BTW, I disagree that it takes years. Pakistan Army training cycle for deployment to the Siachen and other glaciers (where -50 C is normal) is 3 months for an infantry battalion. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/6 "2014-02-27T18:19:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Put those Norwegians in the middle of a 42C desert, and we’ll how hard \*they \*train. …[Mad Dogs and Englishmen](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPnJM3zWfUo#t=10)? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/7 "2014-02-27T18:40:24Z")
That CapitalBay site seems to just scrape news from other sites, which is dodgy behaviour. Anyway, the MOD say that the story is rubbish [http://www.blogs.mod.uk/defence\_news/2014/02/defence-in-the-media-27-february-2014.html](http://www.blogs.mod.uk/defence_news/2014/02/defence-in-the-media-27-february-2014.html) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/8 "2014-02-27T22:19:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m not sure what weather conditions the US Rangers avoid in training. Probably not much; I used to work with a guy who had fairly recently been medically discharged from one of the Ranger battalions because he’d got frostbite on a training exercise and lost several toes on each foot. The article does seem kind of sketchy though. 8C for winter training? 46F is not an uncommon daytime high in the Dallas area… in Texas! I’d think real winter training wouldn’t get above freezing, and would ideally be much lower. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/9 "2014-02-27T23:58:16Z")
It seems unlikely all winter training would be that restricted. Perhaps in this one case some officer ordered the troops not to train in Norway for a few days. Ministry of Defence says its rubbish. I guess the article over generalized a single incident. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/10 "2014-02-28T14:09:09Z")
Perhaps they all had [better things to do](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucgU2DJlBiw). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-troops-cant-train-in-cold-weather-health-and-safety-regs/682395/11 "2014-02-28T14:26:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Great that Afghanistan is not known for[extreme cold weather then](http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2012221102246504375.html). > > BTW, I disagree that it takes years. Pakistan Army training cycle for deployment to the Siachen and other glaciers (where -50 C is normal) is 3 months for an infantry battalion. British forces are all being pulled out of Afghanistan, so that isn’t really a consideration.