Speaking of being dismissive of the Scottish people, the Scotts Miracle-Gro lawn care/pesticide company is again revving up its ad campaign featuring a purported Scotsman named Scotty (he wears plaid shirts and owns a Scottie) to hawk their wares. This clearly is intended as an insult to the Scottish people, and can only mobilize fanatical support for independence.
“What do we want?” “DEVOLUTION!” “When do we want it!” “AS SOON AS WE CAN VOTE ALL OVER AGAIN!!!”
Most Scots either accept with good grace (or grudgingly) the stereotypical ethnic caricatures that occur. But when the slurs suggest that Scots are too stupid to know what they are voting for, or for ‘not knowing their place’ in the Union, or are pilloried for demanding being allowed to have a political and national identity, then the drive for separation or independence begins to shift over the fifty per cent mark.
Unionists who play to their English Nationalist audiences may gain traction in England, but are actively encouraging further dissent from moderate Scots.
That may be a risk they are happy to take.
Well, after a week when we have had Alex Salmond smugly relishing the possibility of the SNP being the party the others have to do a deal with if there is no overall majority at the next election a bit of Scots-baiting by people on the fringe comes as no surprise. Salmond has overplayed his hand.
The prospect of the SNP, a party bent on destroying the UK for the sake of Scottish Independence, which the Scots voted decisively against, being the largest minority party. This is a nightmare scenario for the other parties.
I am hoping the Scots see sense and vote for Labour as they have done so often in the past. The SNP is the party of Scottish Nationalism. That vote has been and gone. However, how that plays north of the border, is hard to guess.
I cannot see either the Tories or Labour doing a deal with the SNP. There is simply no common ground. The SNP made plain their agenda in the independence vote. It is radical and they want separation from the UK and any government would be hamstrung by doing a deal with them. Scottish voters have an uneviable choice. If they desert the Labour party by voting SNP, they make a Tory majority in the UK more likely and the independence vote has signed them up to staying in the UK. Vote SNP and get another five years of Tory rule? If they vote Labour, they will have a lot of clout. Sadly Labour are not as strong as they should be.
I suspect the SNP vote will collapse in Scotland as, indeed the UKIP vote will collapse in the rest of the UK. Both can return to being insignificant fringe parties.
If a few fringe Tories make statements that encorage Scots to vote SNP, then it is more likely there will be a Tory majority and no deals neccessary. It is that kind of election.
This vote is quite open because of the rist of these fringe parties like the SNP and UKIP, so anything could happen.
However…we will see in May.
Every indication is that the Scots will vote SNP in May. Labour have made no impression since loosing their hegemony in October and all pollsters are forecasting a massive swing in votes and fifty seatsseats to the SNP.
The SNP is in many Scots’ views, not only the party of independence but also the party of the Scottish people and the foundation of an incredibly popular two governments over the past half dozen years. They are currently close to 50%in the polls and both major psephologists are predicting seats in the forties or fifties.
UKIP have suffered a halving of their votes in the past couple of months whereas the SNP have remained stable.
Having forty or fifty seats in what is likely to be a hung parliament gives the SNP incredible leverage because of he Fixed Term Parliaments Act. If they vote against a Conservative Queens Speech (or more probably cause Cameron to resign because of his failure to achieve a workable platform of government), Miliband would be invited to form a government. Initially the SNP could support this, but hen make any continuing support dependent on meeting their demands. The Government would not fall, but would only be able to enact legislation with support from either the smaller parties, or from the Conservatives. The SNP could play he game of cat and mouse for the whole parliament - supporting any confidence votes bur bargaining for its votes in any other vote.
Unless both Labour and Conservative agree to a dissolution, a new election would be almost impossible.
We shall see.
What we shall see is the increased animosity of the UK electorate against the likes of the SNP. Which I’m not surprised, it is exactly what they want.
But what about the behaviour of the SNP towards the English electorate? How does it foster wonderful relations between the English and Scottish if they separate in the future.
Agreed that the SNP are in a win-win-win situation:
Tory Government alienates even more Scots
Labour Government with SNP support gives Scots the Government they apparently want
Grand Coalition is a snub to Nationalism which will drive further separatism.
The only way I can see to solve the problem for a generation is some sort of Free State or Federal structure.
Simon Jenkins’ comparison with the Irish question are interesting and mirror several threads I made last year.
Well good luck with that, nothing better than a strategy of political brinksmanship which would probably see a closing of all ranks against you.
The Irish comparison is a false reasoning, Irish people were persecuted on a grand scale and denied for centuries beforehand a decent sense of political representation. Scotland in comparison, did not.
I think the SNP is doing a fine job of alienating Scots from the UK without any help from the ‘Westminister elite’
You misunderstand. I am a reluctant supporter of Independence. I am a long time believer in maximum devolution within a federal structure and tending to the left in social matters and so was a natural recruit to the SNP, not for its nationalist policies, which I generally dislike, but for its other political aims. I suspect there are many other SNP supporters like me who want a settlement less thankful separation.
I suspect we shall see a similar pattern to twentieth century Irish history- s split between those who want Home Rule versus those who want separation. As in the case of Ireland, Unionists are making the same set of errors and these are mitigating against any political ‘civil war’, but ensuring that both devolutionist tendencies remain a single and unstoppable force for the important decade and do not split into two distinct independence factions. It will not matter to tomorrow’s independent citizens whether their grandfathers were pro full independence or pro Home Rule.
The horrors of the Irish earlier centuries are not any model of today’s Scotland, but the twentieth century Irish Problem has a lot to say about today’s politics of Scottish separation.
What we have to hope for is a change of Unionist attitude that sees devolution as an opportunity, not a threat.
As of right now:
Number of posts: 28 of which
13 Pjen
3 CarnalK
2 Ryan_Liam
2 Jackmannii
2 Captain Amazing
1 Everyone else
Reported for being the same old echo chamber bullshit.
Get a fucking blog.
Actually, that’s a damn good idea, second only to a grand coalition. Whatever it takes to shut the nationalists out of government. I hope both parties put their duty to the Union above party politics (as the SNP should as well, but obviously they won’t).
Amateur modding is a little embarrassing?
Poor reluctant supporter of Independence. Reluctantly starting thread after thread, post after post. Reluctantly cheering every Unionist misstep. How sad.
I can’t be the only one thinking of “Brave Sir Robin” now…
Further support:
"The UK remains one of the most centralised countries in the Western world, with too much power and finance controlled from a mere square mile in Westminster and Whitehall. In research produced by my own Institute of Economic Affairs this week, we argue for greater powers being devolved to local communities without the creation of still further tiers of bureaucracy, such as regional assemblies or a separate English Parliament.
“Because the English have not taken seriously the question of how we want English devolution to happen – if at all – we have allowed the distinct possibility that the political complexion of the next UK government will end up being determined by the Scottish National Party. That is our fault. Not theirs.”
Probably scuppers any hope of a non mono-maniacal GE 2015 thread too. Again.
It’s only a month away, right? As an American/Canadian, I’ll wait to post my comments till the results are in.
I will say, though, that one thing I have always been delighted with in the difference between U.S. and Canadian elections is that Canadian elections don’t start two years previous. The fixed-term Parliament Act impresses me as going in that direction, and judging from the threads and posts re the upcoming UK election, y’all are going to have the same problem.
no it is a ratio we have all seen. it is worth observation.
I’d rather be embarrassing than pathetic.
Somehow I doubt rounders is on the Telegraph’s radar.
Leaving aside the fact that Pjen is looking for a Tory to be outraged at, I think Bruce Anderson has a bit of a point. If SNP support is concentrated in Glasgow, then maybe Glasgow specifically should be cut off to go its own way.
It’s distressing to see the Guardian advising Labour to commit suicide.