# British use of the word "gaffer" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [June 4, 2024, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472 "2024-06-04T11:56:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/41 "2024-06-06T14:19:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I knew about the cot-caught merger, but I didn’t know that cat got swept up in one, too. Sorry - that was me making a little joke. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/42 "2024-06-06T23:26:15Z")
What do you consider a “long a”? In the US, that is an “ay” as in “day” sound. I assume it’s not, right? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/43 "2024-06-11T15:33:57Z")
Ah as in far, car etc ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/44 "2024-06-11T15:43:07Z")
Yeah this is why talking about language without some common ground (like IPA) is frustrating. We don’t call that sound a “long A” in the US. I’m not even sure we have a special name for it, as it’s not “short a” (which for us would be the the ae sound, or the “a” in “can” for you, but not the “a” in “c’ant” for you — whereas for us, those both take the same vowel.) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/45 "2024-06-11T21:09:58Z")
I remember a conversation between two young women from different parts of England who disagreed about the pronunciation of the word “bath”. One pronounced it with the “trap” vowel and the other with the “palm” vowel. The one who pronounced it with the trap vowel bolstered her argument by saying “there’s no ‘r’ in ‘bath’”. Speaking of overcorrection, I only realised quite recently that RP speakers don’t rhyme “grass” /grɑːs/ and “mass” /mæs/, /mas/. A non-RP speaker (like me) attempting an RP accent would likely get this wrong because there is no obvious rule. Similarly RP-speakers attempting a rhotic accent are likely to introduce an “r” sound in words like “palm”. Dr Geoff Lindsey has an excellent [video](https://youtu.be/HnEIKavamks?si=83SXZhVtbWq0vB4k) on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/46 "2024-06-11T21:30:24Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > and the other with the “palm” vowel. And while I know what you’re talking about here, even that vowel sound is pronounced differently depending on what accent. They could mean /ɑ/ or /ɔ/. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2024, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/47 "2024-06-12T07:03:59Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > RP speakers don’t rhyme “grass” /grɑːs/ and “mass” /mæs/, /mas Unless they’re a particularly precious sort of Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/48 "2024-06-12T23:15:10Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Unless they’re a particularly precious sort of Catholic. And those older English Catholics pronounce (religious) “Mass” different from (physical) “mass”, right? Very strange. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/49 "2024-06-13T06:19:53Z")
There are - or were at one time - people who lengthened the vowel (mahss). [Perhaps they anticipated confusion over the Higgs boson😏] ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/50 "2024-06-13T12:05:34Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > [Perhaps they anticipated confusion over the Higgs boson😏] A Higgs Boson walks into a Catholic church. The priest says, “We don’t want you here, you so-called ‘God Particle’”! The Boson says, “But how can you have Mass without me”? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/51 "2024-06-13T13:07:53Z")
Aside: The overwhelming majority of the mass that we’re familiar with has nothing at all to do with the Higgs boson. The Higgs process is believed to give electrons and quarks their mass, but most of the mass in a proton or neutron (and hence most of the mass in ordinary matter as a whole) is in the binding energy between the quarks, not in the quarks themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/52 "2024-06-13T14:11:32Z")
A [wise man once said](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC4rV7VBOv8) “never analyze comedy” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/53 "2024-06-13T14:31:21Z")
On the topic of British use of words, what’s the deal with police calling their female boss “Ma’am”? It sounds strange/archaic to me, but seems commonplace on British police shows. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/54 "2024-06-13T14:55:40Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > “there’s no ‘r’ in ‘bath’” “I was speaking to my son who is also named Barth.” ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/55 "2024-06-13T15:30:44Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > On the topic of British use of words, what’s the deal with police calling their female boss “Ma’am”? It sounds strange/archaic to me, but seems commonplace on British police shows. Because they call their male bosses ‘Sir’. They adopt formal ranks like the army, so anyone ranked Inspector or above gets called ‘Sir/Ma’am’ accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/56 "2024-06-13T15:36:08Z")
Thanks, guv! ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/57 "2024-06-13T15:42:01Z")
That’s Ma’am to you ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/58 "2024-06-13T15:45:01Z")
Sorry, no ill intent on my part. Just using up what little Brit-Speak I’ve heard on the telly. (can a lady be guvnor?) ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/59 "2024-06-13T15:46:41Z")
I was jesting. But to answer, yes, I think it’s perfectly acceptable, and reasonably common, for someone such as a police officer to refer to their female superior as ‘guv’. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472/60 "2024-06-13T18:21:08Z")
Outside of the formal setting of police etc, ma’am is rather archaic. Most people wouldn’t address a friend, relative etc like that. I habitually do, because it’s a bit of fun. A formal address being used for added informality. j [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-use-of-the-word-gaffer/1002472.md?page=4)