# Britney Spear's 'Diagnosis'? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950 "2021-06-24T15:06:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/41 "2021-06-25T20:41:26Z")
Even if she isn’t mentally ill - if she has simply led her life abused - under the thumb of her mother/father/manager - whomever is controlling her life. Which isn’t much of a reach - she was a mega star as a teenager - and a minor needs an adult controlling their life. As someone whose kids are currently young adults, there is still some desire to control their lives - and their lives are nowhere near as complex as one of the world’s best known celebrities (which Brittney was at that age). And remember that abuse doesn’t need to be physical - it can be simple emotional manipulation. And a component of such abuse may have been making sure Brittney never received a good education - I mean, who would think she would need to know anything other than basic reading/writing/rithmatic, she was worth millions when most kids are looking at colleges and she had “people” to do contracts and stuff. If those people consistently screwed her over in their own interest, from the time she was fourteen or fifteen, that isn’t a situation you can really hold her responsible for. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/42 "2021-06-25T22:33:43Z")
As a longtime subscriber to _Rolling Stone,_ I can tell you that musicians and actors have been getting messed over by their agents, lawyers, and parents since before I was born in 1949. I’m not a fan of Britney’s work, but she has enough talent and skill to have outlasted most of the rock stars of her era. Maybe she’ll get her legal troubles sorted out in time to enjoy the money she’s earning. I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/43 "2021-06-26T00:03:48Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > Not realizing that her lawyer was screwing her for years is kinda what I meant by ‘dumb.’ A more, let’s say ‘sophisticated’ person might have struck up a conversation with another lawyer, or even deliberately sought one out, just by thinking “Hmmm, this doesn’t seem quite right,” but Ms. Spears’ mind doesn’t work the way your mind or my mind or my cat’s mind does. Would you like to try an experiment? Pick some topic on which you are reasonably well informed, and hold yourself forth as an expert on that topic. I think you will be amazed at how many people take whatever you say at face value, simply because you self-identify as an expert. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/44 "2021-06-26T09:34:52Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Would you like to try an experiment? > > Pick some topic on which you are reasonably well informed, and hold yourself forth as an expert on that topic. I think you will be amazed at how many people take whatever you say at face value, simply because you self-identify as an expert. And your point is…? ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/45 "2021-06-26T14:17:45Z")
The point is that a person most emphatically does **NOT** need to be dumb, or uneducated, or incurious, or anything like that, to behave in a manner similar to Britney Spears. No matter how intelligent, well-educated, or curious a person is, it is impossible to know about every subject; most people intuitively know this, and **therefore** , they are willing to take unchallenged the word of an expert on the topic. You wildly overestimate how many people are like yourself in terms of being willing to get a second opinion – “a second opinion” is a polite way of saying that you’re challenging the knowledge of an expert. Most people simply do not do that. Most people, if a lawyer says “That’s impossible,” will simply go, “Well, he’s the expert.” ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/46 "2021-06-26T15:36:39Z")
I guess we disagree on how fundamentally stupid people are. In my experience, my claims to expertise result much more often in challenges, cavils, yes-buts and other idiotic refusals to accept my conclusions than they do meek acquiesences. I want to stress again that I am sympathetic to Britney Spears’ plight. I emphatically DO NOT believe that unintelligent, uneducated people are to be mistreated just because the government and courts say they can be. But claiming she is necessarily of average intelligence or fairly well educated is simply unproven and in my view unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/47 "2021-06-26T16:14:45Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > If you want to show why you think she’s smart and well-educated But that was not what was being said. They were just diferring with your opinion that she’s probably both dumb and uneducated. You are the one saying that **they** are “_claiming she is necessarily of average intelligence or fairly well educated_”. > [@Roger\_That](#): > > I suppose it might be to note how folks tend to assume that celebrities must be of at least average intelligence, and so we mistake anything that a celebrity says or does for something of value For practical purposes, I assume just by law of averages that the majority of _ **any** _ persons I encounter, celebrity or not, are likely be within one standard deviation of “average intelligence” until provided evidence to the contrary. And I’ll hear what they have to say, and _ **then** _ judge if it’s stupid nonsense. (And as far as I know, of all celebrities, Britney Spears was never one to whom people listened for information of value.) ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/48 "2021-06-26T16:15:44Z")
The transcripts of her testimony have been released. She sounds nutty, unfocused and whiny. Nothing so unusual about that for the average citizen. Her net worth has increased dramatically under the conservatorship. It’s painful to say but she should be released and allowed to live her own life even if it means crash and burn. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/49 "2021-06-26T16:38:32Z")
Yeah, and in the process just take care to set aside a secure trust for her children (including a share of future earnings) and for her old age, that neither she nor her dad can touch (under a totally independent non-family trustee). Really, as others have said, we’ve seen many other people, celebrity and not, go through crises, meltdowns, addictions, financial ruin and _ **not** _ be placed on guardianship. I suppose it’s one thing if you’re so badly senile you don’t even know what day it is, but being _aware_ you are considered unfit to handle your own life (and even your own body to the point of an mandatory IUD!) and feeling like there is no expectation of a n end, must be hugely painful. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/50 "2021-06-26T19:28:22Z")
I would like to add that regardless of her mental state and her ability to manage her own affairs, I think her father should be removed as her conservator. I think he has a major conflict of interest due to her history and the fact that she’s the source of his income. If she can’t manage her own affairs, the court should appoint someone that can be trusted to act in her interest, not his. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/51 "2021-06-26T19:43:49Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > If she can’t manage her own affairs, the court should appoint someone that can be trusted to act in her interest, not his. This. So much this. Regardless of what her innate intelligence is, she shouldn’t be allowed to be used as a human cash machine. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/52 "2021-06-26T19:44:27Z")
I’ll do it. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/53 "2021-06-26T23:29:24Z")
For those wondering how this could have happened to Britney, keep in mind that in America in most states a man can get permission to marry a child as young as 10 so long as a judge signs off on it. Then consider that in many states judges are commonly expected to run for their office rather than being appointed. A substantial “campaign donation” is enough to sway some judges into selling children into sexual abuse, is it so surprising a judge signed off on appointing a conservatorship on a very rich pop star going through some personal problems? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/54 "2021-06-26T23:41:55Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I would like to add that regardless of her mental state and her ability to manage her own affairs, I think her father should be removed as her conservator. I think he has a major conflict of interest due to her history and the fact that she’s the source of his income. > > If she can’t manage her own affairs, the court should appoint someone that can be trusted to act in her interest, not his. Yes. If she really needs to be taken care of when it comes to her financial decisions, why him? Roger\_That - there’s a huge difference between “possibly not that intelligent or educated” and “dumber than my cat.” Since you consider yourself smart, presumably you can see that. I also wonder how, if she’s so incapable, she is still capable of headlining major shows. Remembering the amount of stuff she needs to remember to do those shows is way beyond what most people who need conservatorship would ever be capable of. They’d forget half the dance routine, wander off stage, start singing the wrong song in the parts where she sings rather than mimes, and just not turn up fairly often. (Like some musicians actually have done). I bet it’s rare for someone with a demanding full-time job - keeping ultra-fit and rehearsing makes it full time - to be considered so incapable they need a conservator. Certainly not so incapable that they didn’t even have the choice of who their guardian was. And whether or not to have an invasive procedure like an IUD. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/55 "2021-06-27T01:21:02Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > in most states a man can get permission to marry a child as young as 10 so long as a judge signs off on it. Hyperbole Alert > [@](#): > > Every state except Delaware, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Rhode Island[23] and New Jersey allows a person under 18 years old to marry: > > If one or more of the following apply: > > consent of the parents or legal guardians of the minor > consent of a court clerk or judge > if the minor is emancipated. > Or in exceptional circumstances if one or more of the following circumstances apply: > > consent of a superior court judge, rather than a local judge, is required > if one of the parties is pregnant > if the minor has given birth to a child > In 6 states, a person who is 21 years old cannot marry a person under 18 years old - Missouri, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada. In 1 state, Florida, a person who is 20 cannot marry a person under 18 years old. In 3 states, Georgia, Tennessee and Ohio, a person who is 22 cannot marry a person under 18 years old. In Indiana, this is also mostly true, although a person who is 21 can marry a person who is 17 years old. > > Minimum age in 50 states:[24] > > 1 state has a minimum age of 12 years old for females and 14 years old for males:[25][26]Massachusetts > 2 states have a minimum age of 14: Alaska, and Vermont. > 4 states have a minimum age of 15: Hawaii, Kansas, Maryland, and Utah. > 1 state has a minimum age of 15 for females and 17 for males:[25][26]Mississippi > 22 states have a minimum age of 16. > 11 states have a minimum age of 17. > 4 states have no official minimum age, but still require either parental consent, court approval or both: California, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Wyoming > 5 states have a minimum age of 18, which is the same as their general age: Delaware, Minnesota, New Jersey, Rhode Island and Pennsylvania. .[Marriage age in the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States) ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/56 "2021-06-27T01:36:51Z")
You would be horrified to find out how very new some of those laws are. Now think back, when was Britney put under conservatorship again? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/57 "2021-06-27T04:06:15Z")
Which has nothing to do with the veracity of the statement you made that @mikecurtis was challenging. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/58 "2021-06-27T04:18:48Z")
…that we know of… ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/59 "2021-06-27T14:01:55Z")
If you watch Framing Brittney (hey, I was knitting!) people who worked with her pre conservatorship say that when it came to her shows, she knew what she wanted. She wasn’t a mere puppet. I doubt she’s Physicist and Rock Star Brian May level of intelligent (few people are), but she isn’t so mentally deficient she requires 24 hour care. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950/60 "2021-06-27T17:13:03Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Roger\_That - there’s a huge difference between “possibly not that intelligent or educated” and “dumber than my cat.” Since you consider yourself smart, presumably you can see that. Shucks–here I was thinking I’d get criticized by the cat lovers on this site! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britney-spears-diagnosis/944950.md?page=4)