Britney Spear's 'Diagnosis'?

This may be of interest:

:smiley:

None of us know her level of intelligence, though personally I’m willing to put money on it being better than that of a “small child” because that’s a really extreme learning difficulty, not just “below average.” (Cats are a different kind of intelligence, not lesser, IMO).

The public doesn’t know Britney’s medical condition. I know she was hospitalized in 2008. That eventually lead to her conservatorship. Britney Spears Hospitalized for 'An Evaluation'

Her father is at a big disadvantage because HIPAA won’t allow her situation to be discussed. We’re only hearing Britney’s side. There may be valid reasons for a conservatorship.

A lot of people don’t really grasp what is (and, what is not) protected under HIPAA. As I understand it, HIPAA only protects your personal health information when it’s being used by healthcare professionals, health insurance companies, etc. I’m not at all sure that HIPAA prevents a private person (even a conservator) from publicly discussing another person’s health conditions of which they have knowledge.

Well, no. This is the first time we are hearing Brittney’s side. We have in the past heard from her father, her attorney, her personal assistant, her choreographer, her boyfriend, her mother, her ex-husband, and ShadowFact’s friend. Her father has not been silent on this issue.

IMHO Britney fell into the Elvis trap She had a manager (Sam Lutfi) taking a big share of her earnings and an entourage of yes men that kept her isolated, fed her paranoia, and kept a generous supply of drugs.

Elvis had Tom Parker and the Memphis Mafia. The end result was pretty depressing. Forty-two years old, almost broke, bloated, addicted, and singing twenty-year old former hits until he died on the toilet.

Britney could have ended up the same way.

Britney’s family had a terrible time untangling her from Sam Lutfi. He popped up every few years with new lawsuits. I’d see news about it and shake my head at the greed.

I don’t know her current situation. But she appears to be healthy and drug free. It does seem like she should have more freedom. Find out if she’s more mature and can avoid what happened before.

I’m not familiar with CA conservatorship, but in my state, two things in the law protect the “protected person.”

First, the conservator has a fiduciary duty to the protected person and the estate. If some of the accusations in this thread are true, her father could be criminally prosecuted. But as has been noted, he has done a good job managing the estate. It has grown very well.

Second, the protected person is entitled to a guardian ad litem, paid for by the estate, who is an attorney and is required to act in the best interests of the protected person. Note, not for the protected person, but in the protected person’s best interests. As part of this, if the protected person makes an objection to the guardian ad litem, then yet another attorney is appointed who acts on behalf of the protected person, but within ethical bounds.

Again, I’m not arguing that this conservatorship is a good thing, but it isn’t like this is a Star Chamber proceeding, and it seems that her father has done his duty well, so I’m not sure why posters are demanding that he be replaced.

Also, I’m not sure how just a conservatorship works. If someone is incompetent, then they are appointed both a guardian and a conservator under the theory that if they are incompetent, they likewise cannot handle their affairs. But if someone is otherwise competent, what would be the reason why they cannot piss away their own money?

You (and others) may find this an interesting watch. As usual, this channel does a good job of explaining the legal issues surrounding some notable cases. It may answer some of your questions.

It’s 23 minutes.

Yes. And it is a very interesting watch if you like legal analysis (that sounds dull but this is not). He does as thorough a job as is possible in 23 minutes detailing the issues and explaining them. Shorter and you will miss something and if you want more detailed you probably need to take a few law classes.

It looks like Spears is getting screwed over pretty badly.

(And he is a lawyer himself although not necessarily practiced in the law he is discussing.)

He segues to a Hello Fresh ad at 21:20, so it’s not as long as you think. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I figured I’d give it a minute or two, and watched the whole thing. Very informative, and he’s entertaining as well.

Very nice and thank you.

It definitely answers my first assumption. California has “conservatorship over the person” and “conservatorship over the estate.” In my state the first is called a guardian. The second is simply called a conservator. So speaking my language, she is under a guardian and conservatorship.

I like the guy in your video, and if his facts are correct, she is getting absolutely screwed. She is not incompetent. She records albums, performs concerts, cares for her children, and so forth. This conservatorship seems to only stay in place because of bureaucratic inertia. Maybe she needed it in 2008, but (to me) she clearly doesn’t need it now.

Of course, that is based upon limited facts as we don’t have the whole record. Especially about the IUD. She has a $60 million estate. We let any two homeless people fuck and have kids. Why is she unable to provide for those kids if she has them?

I agree that this looks like an absolute travesty, but I could be wrong because I haven’t seen the sealed docs.

The video suggests her attorney, who should have been her advocate, may not have been doing his job. He was making a lot of money letting the status quo continue (IIRC $430,000/year).

If he worked zealously on her behalf that gravy-train would stop so maybe he was not quite clear to her about her options.

The video does not allege a conflict of interest but clearly implies one could exist.

Yep, with a media empire like hers, there’s a lot of milking that can be done completely legitimately. Lots of stuff that needs to be taken care of. Even a court-designated attorney to advocate on her behalf would realize that they are much better off with this case on their plate than with whatever other conservatorships they may be assigned. Clearly a violation of professional ethics, but one that’s not easy to see. Hopefully she’s pulled back the curtain and people involved will be punished.

It is really tough once you have a conservatorship in place regardless of who you are, since the presumption is that you’re incompetent. If the conservatorship had to be continually re-established every so often, it would be much more difficult to have continued this entire time. But once it’s established, they don’t need to prove incompetency ever again, and can use it as an excuse to not listen to what the conservatee has to say.

I agree with you on most everything, but even with the “gravy train” they seem not to be robbing her, but actually preserving her estate and making her richer.

I don’t have a lot more thought to put into that right now as it is late (maybe I need a conservator? :slight_smile: ) but my thought is that the accusations of milking may not be true. And there his a judge who is paid a salary no matter what. Why would the judge be on board with a railroading?

How often is a judge involved? Once the conservatorship was established it seems a judge was never involved.

The video mentions reporting back to the court via someone once every two years but who is filing those reports and how hard is that person in the judicial system checking them out? (I would bet not at all…that court drone files the papers and that is it.)

And since the conservatee cannot hire her own lawyer…maybe you can see the problem.

Your video said that at any time a petition may be filed to terminate the conservatorship. Presumably her own lawyer would file that petition.

ETA: And your guy in the video said that she should easily meet the qualifications to terminate…by releasing albums, holding concerts, etc.

That’s the problem…her attorney did not let her know she had that option.

Consider that she did not get to hire her own attorney. He was getting paid as long as the status quo of her in a conservatorship remained. We do not know for sure if he was corrupt but that does not look good.

Of course she can hire her own attorney. Her attorney is not the one getting the fees described in the video. It seems that she had a pretty bad attorney; a nice old guy that didn’t do shit for her. She probably/maybe has a malpractice suit against him. But she can hire an attorney who can file a petition to terminate.

I think you are wrong.

A conservatorship is usually for grandma who has Alzheimer’s and literally cannot enter into a contractual arrangement (e.g. hire an attorney).

Spears was in that position in 2008 and still is today.