# Brits: "admit affray" What do each of these words mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 26, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542 "2018-10-26T14:32:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/21 "2018-10-26T22:13:25Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Still, I’m glad I took Latin in high school! 😃 Actually a strange thing here - and I wonder how widespread it was - but for the top stream at my Scottish comprehensive school in the early 1980s, it was required to do Latin up to O-grade level (the exams after four years of secondary education, so the ones you took when you were 15/16). The reason was that entry to the older Scots universities to do law or medicine still had that as a requirement, so the school felt compelled to make that compulsory. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/22 "2018-10-26T22:19:24Z")
This is the most probable explanation for ‘beak’ that I have found: > [@](#): > > Until very recent years a very common expression to describe appearance before a magistrate, especially in London, was ‘Up before the Beak’, but the word and phrase now appear to be on their way out. Beak, or Beck, is an old word, of Dutch origin, for anyone in authority (masters are still ‘beaks’ at some public schools); from the sixteenth century it was used to describe a constable, and it was partly by an accident of alliteration that the term, as applied to a magistrate, survived. Sir John Fielding, who succeeded his half-brother, the novelist, as Chief Magistrate at Bow Street in 1754, was blind. A magistrate in those days, at Bow Street even more than elsewhere, was as much a policeman as a judge, so it was inevitable that he should become known as ‘The Blind Beak’. The name stuck, and still sticks, though less firmly than before. Today it is certainly used more by the old than by the young, and more in London than elsewhere. ‘Stipendiary Magistrate’ is the correct title of the legally qualified magistrates in the provinces; it is sometimes abbreviated to the inelegant but affectionate ‘Stipe’, but this word, like ‘Beak’, has now acquired a rather dated sound. > > [etymology - Why is a judge or magistrate called "the beak"? - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/7772/why-is-a-judge-or-magistrate-called-the-beak) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/23 "2018-10-27T05:34:32Z")
Once upon a time, in the days when local government was still highly oligarchical, you had to be more or less invited to become a JP/magistrate, as a person of some standing in your local community - hence, usually local landowners and merchants. As local government became more democratised, so the appointment of JPs became more formalised and began to open up, and the range widened of local worthies who might suggest you to the powers that be, and hence the range of people who might do the job - but still people with strong local networks, often through the political parties and/or civic/charitable/community organisations. A friend of mine who is a school headmaster became one. Nowadays the application process is open to anyone. > **[Become a magistrate](https://www.gov.uk/become-magistrate)** > > How to volunteer as a magistrate, who can and cannot apply, the application form, and what magistrates do in court. That’s for England and Wales; Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own arrangements. My understanding is that Stipendiary Magistrates in England were legally qualified full-timers, sitting in higher profile and busier courts. Apparently they are now called “district judges”. PS “Mulcted” - to my ears it also suggests milking, which is sort of appropriate to the mood of the Wodehouse quote above. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/24 "2018-10-27T07:36:25Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > In the US, “on the (witness) stand” means testifying as a witness. Generally in an elevated location next to the Judge, facing the attorneys and easily visible by the Jury. The witness is actually seated in a chair while ‘on the stand’, only actually standing at first while they are sworn (or affirmed). If the defendant chooses to testify in his own defense, he will move from his seat next to his defense attorney to the witness stand. > > In Britain, does the defendant, when called to testify, actually testify while confined ‘in the dock’? > If so, that seems rather prejudicial to the defendant, I would think. It does seem prejudicial but not any more so than having a prisoner’s dock to begin with. In my state (every state?) defendants have the right to be tried in street clothes and be free from handcuffs or other visible restraints so the jury does not get the impression that he is guilty or dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/25 "2018-10-27T07:57:36Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > _THE_ hoi polloi?! :eek: > > Should have done Greek too ;)😃 I am quite aware that _hoi_ is a definite article in Greek. And, perhaps by italicizing the phrase, I should have left out “the”. However, as you will note by perusing the web, there is no definite consensus regarding whether or not to use “the” with the words “hoi polloi”. Since I think most English speakers (being generally ignorant of Greek, sadly) would translate “hoi polloi” as “common people” (as opposed to “ **the** common people”), I took the liberty of using the English definite article, which, of course, risks redundancy. _Mea culpa_. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/26 "2018-10-27T11:47:14Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It does seem prejudicial but not any more so than having a prisoner’s dock to begin with. > > In my state (every state?) defendants have the right to be tried in street clothes and be free from handcuffs or other visible restraints so the jury does not get the impression that he is guilty or dangerous. AFAIK, defendants in the UK also wear what they want (or have been advised by their lawyer to wear), and if they give evidence in their own defence, do so from the witness box. Just recently, in an episode of the caper drama series Lovejoy, our hero was up before a magistrate with a tough reputation on a charge of which he was technically guilty. His barrister swopped his sober suit jacket, shirt and Old Etonian tie, with our hero"s T-shirt and leather jacket, gave the magistrate as an excuse for his appearance that he (the barrister) had been called upon at short notice, let the magistrate notice the OE tie, and let his prejudices decide the defendant was a basically honest chap who had been badly served, and deserved no more than being bound over on his own bond. And I can remember when they changed the conventional language so the defendant was no longer referred to as “the prisoner” and was to be addressed as “Mr/Miss/Mrs” rather than just by their surname - about 40 or 50 years ago, I think. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/27 "2018-10-27T15:19:53Z")
It’s a bit of an eye-opener when you see some local layabout up before the beak in a smart suit, clean shirt and tie, and with his hair neatly combed. This in contrast to his usual appearance of studded leather jacket over a dirty T-shirt, torn jeans and spiky hair. Magistrates are well used to discounting appearance though and tend to go on the evidence before them. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/28 "2018-10-27T15:40:23Z")
Another distinction about the divided profession is that you don’t have a direct commercial relationship with the barrister. You hire the solicitor. If you need a barrister to represent you in Court, the solicitor retains the barrister. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/29 "2018-10-29T11:02:06Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Re dock, stand, etc: on the tip of my tongue is something from Wodehouse about Bertie Wooster questioning the probity of The Law after being nicked (is that right? “arrested”? but I thought that means “stolen”) for stealing a policeman’s hat: “I was mulcted for five of the best and received an overly harsh warning from the beak.” This has been missed, I think. ‘Nicked’ means both stolen and arrested, depending in context. “You’re nicked” Policeman to thief “I must confess, I nicked the chocolate bar” Thief to Policeman. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/30 "2018-10-29T11:57:09Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > In the US, “on the (witness) stand” means testifying as a witness. Generally in an elevated location next to the Judge, facing the attorneys and easily visible by the Jury. The witness is actually seated in a chair while ‘on the stand’, only actually standing at first while they are sworn (or affirmed). If the defendant chooses to testify in his own defense, he will move from his seat next to his defense attorney to the witness stand. > > In Britain, does the defendant, when called to testify, actually testify while confined ‘in the dock’? > If so, that seems rather prejudicial to the defendant, I would think. No. The defendant goes into the witness box like anyone else. Most English Courtrooms are pretty spartan. You speak from where you are sitting. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/31 "2018-10-29T13:49:43Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > This has been missed, I think. ‘Nicked’ means both stolen and arrested, depending in context. > > “You’re nicked” Policeman to thief > “I must confess, I nicked the chocolate bar” Thief to Policeman. And “the nick” is slang for the jail. Oops, I mean ‘gaol’. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542/32 "2018-10-29T14:33:12Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > This in contrast to his usual appearance of studded leather jacket over a dirty T-shirt, torn jeans and spiky hair. Congratulations on managing to post from 1976! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-admit-affray-what-do-each-of-these-words-mean/823542.md?page=1)