[QUOTE=levdrakon]
I grew up mainly in Wisconsin and for the most part, Wisconinites don’t stick extra r’s on too many words.
I was used to people from the New York/New England areas of the country adding r’s to words like pizzer instead of pizza. But I was a bit surprised when I went to college in Minnesota and discovered Minnesotans not only do that but like r’s so much they’ll stick them on your first name if they like you. If your name is Steve you become Stever, or if your name is Keith you become Keither.
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[QUOTE=Themenin]
Not sure I completely agree with your definition of compare, an old-fashioned word for companion, or peer. Maybe you’re referring to a dialect variant ? Godfather is padrino (like the movie). Otherwise I agree that the ‘accent’ sounds like Neapolitan, where the penultimate vowel sound of a word is often ‘stretched out’ (vowel raising ?), and the last syllable dropped completely (consonant lenification ?). The softening of the ‘C’ sound to a ‘G’ also sounds like Neapolitan.
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Padrino (literally ‘little father’) is the godfather in relation to his godchild.
Originally, the words compare (literally ‘co-father’) and commare (‘co-mother’) refer to people you choose as your child’s baptismal sponsors. Traditionally you would choose your closest friends for this honor. The relationship between friends is considered to develop a sacred bond, like being part of the family, when they act as baptismal sponsors for each other’s children. So when the word is used loosely instead of literally – like “homie” – calling a friend commare or compare is like saying you feel so close to them that you would ask them to sponsor your child’s baptism. Anyway, this is the Sicilian culture I grew up in, I’m not sure about your part of Italy.
Back when the English were following the Pope, the origin of the word gossip was the same concept, ‘god-sibling’.
Vowel raising refers to the shifts of e>i and o>u. This is an especially prominent feature in Sicilian.
Consonant lenition can mean various things, in this case I meant the voicing of originally unvoiced consonants, k>g, p>b, t>d. I heard a speaker of Neapolitan dialect call it “Nabulidàn.”
[QUOTE=ralph124c]
Forget the extra “rs”-why do you Brits say : alumINIUM? Its ALU-MIN-UM! :rolleyes:
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We pronounce ‘aluminium’ as it’s spelt. It’s not our fault you spell it wrong, too.
(FWIW, 'twas originally ‘alumium’)
[QUOTE=Valteron]
I know it is an old song, but listen to Elton John’s “Yellow Brick Road” and tell me if he says “A couple of vodker and tonics to get you on your feet again.”
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan]
It isn’t a Cockney thing. Most Northern accents have it, too.
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Do the Scots? I’m trying to think if us Northern Irish types do it too, I don’t think I do, but then I’m guilty of the “fillum” instead of “film” mistake and seem to have difficulty pronouncing “sexual” and “issues”
[QUOTE=GorillaMan]
We pronounce ‘aluminium’ as it’s spelt. It’s not our fault you spell it wrong, too.
(FWIW, 'twas originally ‘alumium’)
Nope, he says ‘vodka’.
I just can’t hear it.
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I guess you can’t hear it, then. There’s clearly and “r”, at least in this You Tube recording (1:57 into the song). If you don’t hear it there, then I can’t help you.
I only heard it in the way Colophon described it, in an elisive manner when a word teminating in a vowel sound goes into a word beginning with a vowel sound. Like “vodka[r] and tonic” but not “vodka martini.” I’ve never heard an “r” in “bra” on its own–only in a phrase like “take off your bra[r] and panties” but not in the simple “take off your bra.”
[QUOTE=Johanna]
Anyway, this is the Sicilian culture I grew up in, I’m not sure about your part of Italy… I heard a speaker of Neapolitan dialect call it “Nabulidàn.”
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Thanks for the info. I’ve lived with southern Italians but I learned the language as an adult living in Milano and Florence, so there’s a lot of southern stuff I’m not conversant with.
Just to stay on topic, I’ve definitely noticed the ‘extra r syndrome’ in some British accents. I met a girl from Newcastle who seemed to be called Linder.
[QUOTE=Pushkin]
Do the Scots? I’m trying to think if us Northern Irish types do it too, I don’t think I do, but then I’m guilty of the “fillum” instead of “film” mistake
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I’m pretty sure us Scots don’t pronounce a phantom R.
I do, however, find myself saying “fillum” as well, much to the disgust of my wife.
While watching the Weakest Link the other day everyone voted off a girl called Summer. Only the Scottish contestant pronounced the R at the end of her name.
Who is the weakest link?
Summa
Summa
Summa
Aaaargh, drove me mad hearing person after person miss off the R.
[QUOTE=Johanna]
Originally, the words compare (literally ‘co-father’) and commare (‘co-mother’)
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And it’s interesting how these words have become slangified: compare –> goombah (hale-and-hearty fellow thug!); commare –> goomar (my little bit on the side).
[QUOTE=Themenin]
where the penultimate vowel sound of a word is often ‘stretched out’ (vowel raising ?), and the last syllable dropped completely (consonant lenification ?).
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I don’t think we do. Actually I tend to think of it as a nasty southern English habit. Before I gave up watching television, I was always shouting at the poor machine when some idiot said thing like “Lawr and Order”
Wow, I did not think my post would generate over 55 replies!
Lots of good material in the postings, but the theory that makes the most sense is that the R is added to create a smooth flow between a word ending in a vowel and the next word beginning in one. So Captain Picard (Patrick Stewart) says “Dater and I” but “Data can handle it.”
In fact, French not only takes measures to prevent problems arising from adjacent vowels in the spoken language; it also incorporates these measures in written French.
French people say “le mur” or “la porte” but they say “l’enfant” or “l’ouverture”. But they also write it that way. It would be universally considered a spelling mistake to write “le enfant”.
Similarly, the letter “t” is stuck into places to keep two vowels from “bumping together. “Il va” mean he goes. To turn it into a question (goes he?) you do not say or write “va-il” but rather"va-t-il”. What does the “t” stand for? Absolutely nothing. It is just there because “va-il” is hard to say.
So who knows? Maybe this phantom Brit “r” that they add is the beginning of a similar development that could become standard English someday.
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
I guess you can’t hear it, then. There’s clearly and “r”, at least in this You Tube recording (1:57 into the song). If you don’t hear it there, then I can’t help you.
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Ah. I hear it now, although Elton seems to be heavily exaggerating it in that example.
Time for a non-scientific test - I’m going to go and sit at the bar of my local, and see how many people who order a vodka-and-something have an ‘r’ I can hear.
[QUOTE=Valteron]
Similarly, the letter “t” is stuck into places to keep two vowels from “bumping together. “Il va” mean he goes. To turn it into a question (goes he?) you do not say or write “va-il” but rather"va-t-il”. What does the “t” stand for? Absolutely nothing. It is just there because “va-il” is hard to say.
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It’s the ghost of the dead Latin third-person singular verb ending in -t. It reappears when its position occurs between two vowels. A revenant, to use another French word. Its reappearance between vowels is like conjuring a spirit at a crossroads. The French va, with or without the -t-, comes from Latin vadet ‘he goes’.
Before I gave up watching television, I was always shouting at the poor machine when some idiot said thing like “Lawr and Order”