# Brits, Canadians, and others: tell me about socialized medicine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2000, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076 "2000-11-13T22:50:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2000, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076/61 "2000-11-17T03:36:19Z")
Just to confirm what has been said, Canadians can go to any primary care physician they want. In practice, the doctor will refer them to a specialist of their choice (if they have a preference) or the best specialist the doctor is aware of, available locally, who deals with that sort of problem. Screening exams are always a big fiddle between costs and value. These exams may explain the lower cancer mortality in a few cases. In Canada, for example, we do not do as many screening coloscopies as they do in the US. But the medical system in Canada differs substantially from Britain and I do not believe the differences between US and many other countries are as big as was implied. The US a lower life expectancy than Canada and a higher infant mortality rate. Lung cancer is almost always caused by smoking and in that sense is preventable. I agree with the pundit who said these are lifestyle issues. By and large, I think most health economists agree the US gets poor bang for its buck. What is the value of quicker surgery in cases where emdicine is just as effective? ---
**Author:** ![parmalat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7c8e57/32.png) [@parmalat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parmalat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076/62 "2001-01-17T16:54:17Z")
Here’s a question which may be kind of a hijack of the thread: In New York state, there is health insurance for the children of people who do not qualify for medicare (or medicaid, I can’ t remember which is which) but are still poor. My friend’s kids are covered under this. Too bad she doesn’t have health care herself. Why do we think health care for kids is any more important than medical care for adults? Why are we giving seniors a prescription drug plan? Do they deserve to get medications more than a 40 year old who can’t afford them? That said, I am in favor of universal health care. It is criminal that our “modern” society doesn’t think health care is a right for all citizens. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076/63 "2001-01-17T17:35:42Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by puddleglum_ > It would seem to me that if people are being diagnosed earlier in the US than in the UK that would be indicative of the US having more effective screening which is a part of health care. I thought I’d respond to this since the thread has popped back up to the top: Depends what you mean by “more effective”. Screening (i.e. looking for cancers which haven’t expressed themselves) leads to the identification of a certain number of cancers (or quasi-cancerous states) which _never will_ express themselves. For example: a woman goes for a mammogram at the age of 50 and is diagnosed with ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS). The DCIS is removed and she dies peacefully in her sleep at the age of 80. Would she ever have developed full-blown breast cancer, has she lived any longer as a result of the cancer diagnosis and treatment? Who knows? That is what I meant by “it might be that US patients are being diagnosed earlier but not living any longer as a result.” > [@](#): > > the change in the US attitudes are due to the US citizenry being better educated in preventive care. The failure of the UK system to likewise educate its populace would seem to be an indictment of the system. And your evidence that we are less educated than Americans about preventive medicine is … ? ---
**Author:** ![unnameable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ad7895/32.png) [@unnameable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unnameable)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076/64 "2001-01-25T06:42:41Z")
I appreciate that more important issues are being raised here than just one poster’s gratuitous insults to single mothers, but this cannot be left uncriticised: JustAnotherGuy wrote: I’m not sure what is up with the infant mortality rates. Stupid single parents who do drugs, cigarettes and alcohol during their pregnancy is probably one of the biggest factors. I find this objectionable because: 1. Is there any statistical evidence that single mothers have higher infant mortality rates? 2. IF there is, this could be due to a higher incidence of poverty (thus poorer diet, environment etc) among single mothers rather than the smoking etc. Maybe there is a higher incidence of infant mortality with all poor mothers - single or not. 3. You imply that single pregnant women are more likely to be irresponsible. 4. You imply a correlation between single parent and stupid. Obviously a single woman may be pregnant for many _unchosen_ reasons other than stupidity, including - death of partner after conception - rape - abandonment You give me the impression that “JustAnotherGuy” is a misnoma. How about “Exceptionally Disrespectful And Intolerant Guy”. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076/65 "2001-01-25T10:54:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JustAnotherGuy \* > > U.S. life expectancy is staggeringly high now, so high that life insurance premiums have doubled in the last ten years. > \*\* Hang on a sec, if life expectancy goes up, shouldn’t the premiums for insurance go down. If the risk reduces, so should the premium. _Disclaimer: Being a UKer, and still only 24, I have no life insurance and no health coverage beyond the NHS. So I’m speaking from ignorance._ ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076/66 "2001-01-25T11:18:08Z")
As this thread has popped up (again!), I thought I’d add to it links I posted in another thread for those who still believe the commercial Insurance system (as practiced in the US) provides the best health care. The US is currently ranked 34th in the world: [World Health Organsation Annual Report 2000](http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/report.htm) If that’s a little long for people at work the [Press Release](http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/press_release.htm)is available online. ---
**Author:** ![dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076/67 "2001-02-03T18:56:10Z")
I live in the UK and the NHS is fine, sure there are problems but if had a vote of to keep it or scrap it then I would keep it. Its funded from the general taxation system BUT there is a large tax on booze and tobacco ( because if you have lots of this you end up in hospital ). There are private alternatives if you want to pay for a higher level of care and luxury. To be honest, i think the American system is a disgrace, why you can’t sort this out is beyond me. Having said all that, its no paradise here, if your homeless the government wont house you if they run out of homes BUT if you live on the streets and get sick they will put you in hospital, dumb or what. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-canadians-and-others-tell-me-about-socialized-medicine/41076.md?page=3)