# Brits, if underpants are "pants", what are pants? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266 "2016-01-26T15:05:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/81 "2016-02-03T09:36:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Here on the Left Coast, the trousers you wear to work are called ‘slacks’. In the UK, slacks are what older women wear, tres uncool. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/82 "2016-02-03T10:04:51Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > If your sweater buttons up at the front then it’s a cardigan (or “cardy”), if it’s got a flat front, then it’s a jumper. okay, so I didn’t know that. Ignorance fought. But now I have a truly vital question: Why in og’s name is it necessary to have two words for this concept? Is there any other item of clothing which is called by a totally different name just because it doesn’t have buttons? ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/83 "2016-02-03T10:13:27Z")
:shrug: beats me. Just the vagaries of British apparel terminology I guess. Although it’s handy to have a distinct term rather than having to resort to “unbuttoned jumper” or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/84 "2016-02-03T10:16:34Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > Just for the sake of completeness… If your sweater buttons up at the front then it’s a cardigan (or “cardy”), if it’s got a flat front, then it’s a jumper. And for the sake of uber-completeness, here in the US, a cardigan is any [knit garment that has a slit all the way from top to bottom](http://www.anthropologie.com/anthro/category/cardigans/clothes-sweaters-cardigans.jsp;jsessionid=4EC108AF69450DA8FA021EF1129F05CF.anphlpapp03-store03#/), designed to be worn over at least the top half of your body, below your head. No buttons necessary. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/85 "2016-02-03T10:18:11Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > okay, so I didn’t know that. Ignorance fought. > But now I have a truly vital question: Why in og’s name is it necessary to have two words for this concept? > > Is there any other item of clothing which is called by a totally different name just because it doesn’t have buttons? But but, they are TOTALLY different things. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/86 "2016-02-03T10:19:13Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > And for the sake of uber-completeness, here in the US, a cardigan is any [knit garment that has a slit all the way from top to bottom](http://www.anthropologie.com/anthro/category/cardigans/clothes-sweaters-cardigans.jsp;jsessionid=4EC108AF69450DA8FA021EF1129F05CF.anphlpapp03-store03#/), designed to be worn over at least the top half of your body, below your head. No buttons necessary. To be fair, I think we’d call all those cardigans too. (BTE your link took me to the British site, where all those garments are, indeed, cardigans) ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/87 "2016-02-03T12:22:51Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > To be fair, I think we’d call all those cardigans too. > > (BTE your link took me to the British site, where all those garments are, indeed, cardigans) We’re not only separated by language, but by web site redirection. Oh the humanity! ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/88 "2016-02-03T12:23:36Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Why in og’s name is it necessary to have two words for this concept? Because the version with the buttons was thought up by/created for Lord Cardigan, the Crimean War commander (and FWIW, Raglan sleeves are named for his colleague). And sometimes one wants to make a distinction, since one is much easier to put on and take off, especially for the elderly and infirm. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/89 "2016-02-03T12:33:43Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Because the version with the buttons was thought up by/created for Lord Cardigan, the Crimean War commander (and FWIW, Raglan sleeves are named for his colleague). Wow! you learn somethin’ new every day. Now, me, I’ve heard of the Earls of Sandwich, and Mackintosh, whose names have entered the language. But Lords Cardigan and Raglan are new to me… What other aristocrats have you got that I can wear or eat? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/90 "2016-02-03T12:48:41Z")
Well of course there’s Wellington boots. DO NOT Google image search “Prince Albert piercing” though! ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/91 "2016-02-03T14:28:50Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > okay, so I didn’t know that. Ignorance fought. > But now I have a truly vital question: Why in og’s name is it necessary to have two words for this concept? > > Is there any other item of clothing which is called by a totally different name just because it doesn’t have buttons? It’s not just the buttons, it’s the sweater being open down the front. Kind of a poncho versus cape idea. And then there’s a shawl. And a wrap. And a pashmina. All things that go over your shoulders but don’t have arms. Shrugs are a hybrid of the two. ---
**Author:** ![CuriousYellow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3d9bf3/32.png) [@CuriousYellow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousYellow)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/92 "2016-02-03T14:43:56Z")
To add further confusion in the north of England pants are trousers and underpants are underpants, or kegs, or some other local variant. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/93 "2016-02-03T16:32:43Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > . > > But on the other hand, the word “sweater” doesn’t both me it all. I dunno why… I agree with the notion that sweaters are not very close to sweatshirts or sweatpants on the mindmap. Perhaps it’s because we first start seeing and wearing sweaters at a far earlier age than when we learn about actual sweat, compulsory PE, gym towels, treadmills and all tne rest of it. > [@](#): > > (But I do prefer what them Brits call it: a cardigan. That sounds classier.) I agree, but point out that our word “pullover” seems preferable to jumper. Doesn’t “jumper” slso mean a type of little girl’s dress in American? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/94 "2016-02-03T16:35:01Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > And for the sake of uber-completeness, here in the US, a cardigan is any [knit garment that has a slit all the way from top to bottom](http://www.anthropologie.com/anthro/category/cardigans/clothes-sweaters-cardigans.jsp;jsessionid=4EC108AF69450DA8FA021EF1129F05CF.anphlpapp03-store03#/), designed to be worn over at least the top half of your body, below your head. No buttons necessary. But isn’t there always some type of closure, like zipper or at least a belt? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/95 "2016-02-03T17:08:18Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Wow! you learn somethin’ new every day. > Now, me, I’ve heard of the Earls of Sandwich, and Mackintosh, whose names have entered the language. > But Lords Cardigan and Raglan are new to me… > > What other aristocrats have you got that I can wear or eat? 🙂 [Wellington](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Wellesley,_1st_Duke_of_Wellington) [Boots](http://www.hunterboots.com/womens-wellington-boots-latest/)! Then there’s [Prince of Wales check](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Prince+of+Wales+check&espv=2&biw=1919&bih=1197&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJ9IjGi9zKAhWGOBoKHVYJC_AQ_AUIBigB), a wool pattern frequently used in suits. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/96 "2016-02-03T18:29:55Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > But isn’t there always some type of closure, like zipper or at least a belt? Nope. The unclosable cardigan is trendy. For example, run your mouse over the [picture here](http://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=207480032&vid=1&locale=en_US&kwid=1&sem=false&sdkw=shawl-collar-open-front-cardigan-P207480&brandCvoSid=B3F4C29XYVTE&sdReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldnavy.com%2Fproducts%2Fopen-front-cardigan.jsp). No buttons, zippers, belts, clasps. Or look at [more of them here.](http://www.oldnavy.com/products/open-front-cardigan.jsp) ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/97 "2016-02-03T18:58:09Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I agree, but point out that our word “pullover” seems preferable to jumper. Doesn’t “jumper” slso mean a type of little girl’s dress in American? Yep, a sleeveless dress for any age woman, intended to be worn over a long-sleeved shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/98 "2016-02-04T08:03:28Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Yep, a sleeveless dress for any age woman, intended to be worn over a long-sleeved shirt. I think I was remembering something different then. Can a jumper (in America) have buttons some other type of closure–not necessarily down the front–or does it have to pulled on like a pullover sweater? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/99 "2016-02-04T08:59:14Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Wow! you learn somethin’ new every day. > Now, me, I’ve heard of the Earls of Sandwich, and Mackintosh, whose names have entered the language. > But Lords Cardigan and Raglan are new to me… > > What other aristocrats have you got that I can wear or eat? 🙂 How do you like to [knot your necktie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_knot)? I’m sure a King beats Earls and Lords. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266/100 "2016-02-04T12:18:06Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I think I was remembering something different then. Can a jumper (in America) have buttons some other type of closure–not necessarily down the front–or does it have to pulled on like a pullover sweater? You mean[like this](http://www.blair.com/p/28666.uts?cid=pl_bl_google_pla_gen&src_code=209N&pr_code=pr_code&adpos=1o1&creative=80634554961&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=COrd2vyG3soCFcRffgodSqAA5Q)? Sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-if-underpants-are-pants-what-are-pants/744266.md?page=6)