# Brits: What's the distinction being made in "paying rates and taxes?" What's a "rate?" Also: cops **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 29, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704 "2018-01-29T04:58:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/21 "2018-01-29T15:59:37Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > I lived in London for a couple of years and I was told that the guys wearing “Bobby” hats were actually a different division of police than the guys with checker hats. > > In other words, all bobbies are coppers, but not all coppers are bobbies. Is that true? Not really. The guys in the hats are usually the ones who patrol in cars while the ones in the tall helmets will usually be on foot - they are becoming an endangered species. I would say that ‘cops’ is the most common name for police officers (the official gender-neutral name). Old Bill, rozzers, pigs, fuzz, Filth, Bizzies (Local to Liverpool), and Plod are all ones that come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/22 "2018-01-29T16:21:29Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Not really. The guys in the hats are usually the ones who patrol in cars while the ones in the tall helmets will usually be on foot - they are becoming an endangered species. Well, there are two separate police forces in London - the City of London Police and the Metropolitan Police. I guess, as Robert Peel was instrumental in establishing the Metropolitan Police, it is only that force which, strictly speaking, should be considered ‘bobbies’. This is not a distinction I’ve ever noted though - any police officer in the UK might be referred to as a bobby. It may have a historical veracity however. OB ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/23 "2018-01-29T17:25:46Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > The word “poll” in “poll tax” has nothing to do with elections. It is an archaic word for “head”. So a poll tax is a “head tax”; that is, a tax that’s levied on everyone (or everyone who is eligible for it), regardless of individual differences such as property or income. “If we do away with the head tax and impose an arm tax instead, we can raise twice as much money!” “That’s nothing – wait until you hear my idea for a finger tax!” ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/24 "2018-01-29T17:30:27Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > I lived in London for a couple of years and I was told that the guys wearing “Bobby” hats were actually a different division of police than the guys with checker hats. > > In other words, all bobbies are coppers, but not all coppers are bobbies. Is that true? No, not true. They are the same Police, but you can’t where a traditional police helmet in a car, so the checkered cap is a compromise. The same Police would still wear the traditional helmet on foot, or on parade. Bobbies also doesn’t refer to the helmet, it’s just a nickname for the Police. Police in Scotland no longer wear the traditional helmet. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/25 "2018-01-29T19:00:57Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > …Sir Robert Peel… The guy who [Peel Region](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Municipality_of_Peel) on the west side of Toronto is named after. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/26 "2018-01-29T19:56:43Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > (Waiting for John and Ringo …) > [@](#): > > All coppers is evil From _A Hard Day’s Night_. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/27 "2018-01-29T22:55:20Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > According to wikipedia: > > _“The poll tax, officially known as the “Community Charge”, was a tax to fund local government in the United Kingdom, instituted in 1989 by the government of Margaret Thatcher. It replaced the rates that were based on the notional rental value of a house.”_ > > So it’s a replacement for property taxes, to make sure that even the unpropertied and those not of the landed gentry get taxed in full measure. > > As for bobbies, it’s “bobby” in the singular; and I can’t say whether the expression is still common. Might be “rozzer” nowadays, but my only source for that is a 1980s Paul McCartney album. No, rates weren’t only paid by people who owned property. Tenants paid them too. The problem with poll tax was that 4 very low income working people living in an overcrowded one-bedroom flat were charged twice as much as a millionaire couple living in a mansion despite the fact that they don’t really use four times as much in services. Council tax now gives a discount for a person living alone so it does take number of people into account somewhat. Rozzer is still used, but not by anyone under 50 unless they’re being ironic. I mostly hear kids saying 5-0 (five-oh), feds, po-po, or occasionally the bill, which is odd because it’s a pretty old term. But they do say cops too, and occasionally copper. Never bobbie, peeler, or rozzer. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/28 "2018-01-29T23:06:39Z")
> [@Oswald\_Bastable](#): > > Well, there are two separate police forces in London - the City of London Police and the Metropolitan Police. I guess, as Robert Peel was instrumental in establishing the Metropolitan Police, it is only that force which, strictly speaking, should be considered ‘bobbies’. This is not a distinction I’ve ever noted though - any police officer in the UK might be referred to as a bobby. It may have a historical veracity however. > > OB The most noticeable difference between the City of London Police and the Metropolitan Police is that the City cops have red and white checks on their hats while the Met have black and white. There are around 900 officers in the City police and 31,000 in the Met. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/29 "2018-01-30T00:15:00Z")
As said rates was a tax paid by a household to the local council, for local services, and was assessed on the rental value of the property. Rates were replaced by the extremely unpopular community charge (poll tax) before that itself was replaced by council tax, which is assessed on property value. “Copper” and “bobby” are both still used in the UK to describe police constables, but “bobby” often has quaint connotations. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704/30 "2018-01-30T08:20:29Z")
There are plenty of different slang names for the police, some local/regional, and each with their own associated aura of social attitudes. I think “bobby” does imply the old-fashioned “woodentop” or “PC Plod” pounding the streets (as, by and large, they don’t these days). “Filth”, “rozzers” “Old Bill”, “busies” (as in Liverpool-set TV shows at least!) or “PO-lis” (as in Glasgow equivalents) all sound a bit forced and comedic. I think “cops” and “coppers” more approach neutrality, as it were. I think I’ve heard of da yoof using “feds”, US-style. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-the-distinction-being-made-in-paying-rates-and-taxes-whats-a-rate-also-cops/807704.md?page=1)