# Brittney Griner released in prisoner swap **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 8, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202 "2022-12-08T13:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/121 "2022-12-10T04:31:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What I find disappointing is the right wing reaction to this. My local TV station’s FB page had many comments that said her sexual preference was a disqualifying factor. Besides that, ordinary people and Republican pols alike bring up kneeling during the national anthem. Yeah right, we best pay tribute for those who died for freedom by denying others the freedom to express themselves during the anthem. Right after the first Gulf War my conservative\* next door neighbor, a captain in the Army, was home on leave. His company was among the first regular troops to enter Iraq. They drove dune-buggy-type vehicles that followed a big feint and went in a sweep well to the west of where the Iraqis were expecting (the “Hail Mary”)\*\* I guess they were doing recon but I know they also were involved in skirmishes/small battles. When I saw him at home afterward we talked about various war-related things. I asked him how he felt about all the protests over the war. He became quite serious and told me: “When I joined the Army I took an oath to defend the Constitution. We fought and died, in part, for Americans to have the freedom to protest just like they were. I’m proud that Americans were free to show their disapproval. That’s what I signed up for–to protect those rights.” \*I’m sure that now he would be called a RINO (or worse). He’s conservative, but also sensible. Ah the good ol’ days! > \*\* (from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wadi_al-Batin)) From 15 to 20 February, the [Battle of Wadi al-Batin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wadi_al-Batin) took place inside Iraq; this was the first of two attacks by 1 Battalion 5th Cavalry of the 1st Cavalry Division. It was a feint attack, designed to make the Iraqis think that a coalition invasion would take place from the south. The Iraqis fiercely resisted, and the Americans eventually withdrew as planned back into the Wadi al-Batin. Three US soldiers were killed and nine wounded, with one M2 Bradley IFV turret destroyed, but they had taken 40 prisoners and destroyed five tanks, and successfully deceived the Iraqis. This attack led the way for the XVIII Airborne Corps to sweep around behind the 1st Cav and attack Iraqi forces to the west. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/122 "2022-12-10T04:47:14Z")
Forced a conservative to agree that Joe Biden has “kicked more Russian ass” than any President since Ronald Reagan. Not really concerned about the historical niceties and all that (so let us not belabor the point), the idea was to positively associate the two, if even temporarily. Baby steps. ETA: However, upon thinking on it, Biden _has_ had the most aggressively anti-Russia agenda in decades. Other than GHW Bush, the above bit of glibness may be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/123 "2022-12-10T05:30:45Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > However, upon thinking on it, Biden _has_ had the most aggressively anti-Russia agenda in decades. To be fair that has kind of been forced upon him by current events. Georgia and the 2014 seizure of Crimea were quick, lower key affairs that didn’t turn into months of grinding high-intensity warfare. I think if Ukraine had folded early (as many expected and may have come close to happening), things would still be very tense, but probably a fair bit less so since it would have been a fait accompli. In this situation Biden and the rest of the West have unexpectedly found themselves actively, if carefully, backing one side in a major war. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/124 "2022-12-10T05:41:15Z")
:Taps the sign: > [@JohnT](#): > > Not really concerned about the historical niceties and all that (so let us not belabor the point) 😋 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/125 "2022-12-10T06:13:30Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > racist conservatives who cannot express joy at the release of an American prisoner from Russian custody Because they don’t consider her an American. Only _the correct certain people_ are actual Americans. Everyone else is some variety of parasite. > [@](#): > > This is because Republicans are shitty fucking people That too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/126 "2022-12-10T10:34:19Z")
I’m admiring the (R) mental gymnastics that now somehow allow them to call an arms dealer “evil”. I thought those were the good guys? It’s hard to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/127 "2022-12-10T13:43:11Z")
Arms dealers are good if they own stock in them. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/128 "2022-12-10T15:52:27Z")
Moderating: > [@bobot](#): > > This is because Republicans are shitty fucking people. > [@Cervaise](#): > > That too. These comments are unnecessarily provocative and don’t contribute to constructive dialogue in any way. Save such comments for the Pit, if you must. In P&E, dial it back. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/129 "2022-12-10T16:24:27Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > To be fair that has kind of been forced upon him by current events. If you study foreign policy even superficially, I think you’ll find that that describes most, possibly all, presidents. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/130 "2022-12-10T17:33:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Forced a conservative to agree that Joe Biden has “kicked more Russian ass” than any President since Ronald Reagan. I think this bears repeating. Yes, the Russians got back a “Merchant of Death”. However, the United States has plenty of its own Merchants of Death working over in Eastern Europe right now _killing Russians_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/131 "2022-12-10T17:40:16Z")
Who exactly referred to him as “The Merchant Of Death”? Was he called this by compatriots, or was this puffery promoted by his captors? ---
**Author:** ![Win\_Place\_Show](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/win_place_show/32/13469_2.png) [@Win\_Place\_Show](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Win_Place_Show)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/132 "2022-12-10T18:59:49Z")
I don’t have a cite for it right now so hopefully someone else can back me up, but I thought that that nickname came from one of Individual Scumbag #1’s posts on Truth Social a couple of days ago. If the moniker predates that, then I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/133 "2022-12-10T19:10:34Z")
It does (I mean the moniker predates any recent posts). It’s an old nickname. This is also the guy that the Nicholas Cage movie “Lord of War” is (very) loosely based on. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/134 "2022-12-10T19:55:11Z")
I seem to remember Leo McKern’s character (Zaharov) in the old 1983 series _Riley: Ace of Spies_ was also called the Merchant of Death. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/135 "2022-12-10T22:13:11Z")
Dept of Justice opposed this deal. Washington Post is paywalled. The Guardian also reported some of the article. Biden of course is looking at the political gains of bringing Griner home. > **[Biden faced internal opposition to Brittney Griner swap, reports say](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/dec/10/brittney-griner-biden-prisoner-swap-opposition)** > > Department of Justice viewed deal to exchange basketball star for Russian arms dealer as a mistake > [@](#): > > The large discrepancy between these two offenses led the US Department of Justice to believe the prisoner swap was a mistake, according to [a report in the Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/09/brittney-griner-viktor-bout-paul-whelan/). One department official told the Post that “trading a notorious international arms dealer for a basketball player is madness”. > > Critics of the tense political and diplomatic trade-off in the prisoner swap have highlighted the case of Paul Whelan, a US marine veteran who is serving a 16-year sentence in [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) on espionage charges. Biden said that “we’ve not forgotten about Paul Whelan, who has been unjustly detained in Russia for years” and blamed Russia for treating his case differently to Griner’s for “totally illegitimate reasons”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/136 "2022-12-10T22:36:04Z")
The large discrepancy between the offenses was precisely why we wanted the swap. We wanted to rescue someone who had committed either an extremely minor crime or no crime at all. Someone who hasn’t committed any crime at all is who we should MOST want to rescue. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/137 "2022-12-10T23:15:24Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Because they don’t consider her an American. Only _the correct certain people_ are actual Americans. Everyone else is some variety of parasite. Well, there’s [Sarah Krivanek](https://news.yahoo.com/forgotten-american-sarah-krivanek-finally-202816556.html), and the comments about her case (domestically abused Christian white female) are equally unsympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/138 "2022-12-10T23:22:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The large discrepancy between the offenses was precisely why we wanted the swap. And no deal to release Whelan was being entertained by his captors. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/139 "2022-12-10T23:24:50Z")
The use of the term ‘[merchant of death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_of_Death)’ to describe arms manufacturers or arms dealers is very old; it was used to describe the arms industry as a whole (as well as bankers) in [isolationist circles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nye_Committee) post-WWI US looking to blame US involvement in WWI on what would today be called the military-industrial complex. [Alfred Nobel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel#Nobel_Prize) was also famously referred to as the merchant of death during his lifetime and in a possibly/probably apocryphal story of a premature obituary published in the French press: > There is a well known story about the origin of the Nobel Prize, which seems to be an urban legend. In 1888, the death of his brother Ludvig supposedly caused several newspapers to publish [obituaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obituaries) of Alfred in error. One French newspaper condemned him for his invention of military explosives—in many versions of the story, dynamite is quoted, [although this was mainly used for civilian applications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamite#Non-dynamite_explosives)—and this is said to have brought about his decision to leave a better legacy after his death.[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel#cite_note-Brit1-4)[[37]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel#cite_note-HistC-37) The obituary stated, **Le marchand de la mort est mort** (“The merchant of death is dead”),[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel#cite_note-Brit1-4) and went on to say, “Dr. Alfred Nobel, who became rich by finding ways to kill more people faster than ever before, died yesterday.”[[38]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel#cite_note-Nobel-38) Nobel read the obituary and was appalled at the idea that he would be remembered in this way. His decision to posthumously donate the majority of his wealth to found the [Nobel Prize](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize) has been credited to him wanting to leave behind a better legacy.[[39]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel#cite_note-39)[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel#cite_note-Brit1-4) However, there appears to be no evidence that the obituary in question actually existed, suggesting that the whole story is false. ---
**Author:** ![Ivan\_Denisovich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivan_denisovich/32/12804_2.png) [@Ivan\_Denisovich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivan_Denisovich)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202/140 "2022-12-10T23:48:41Z")
We should assume that Paul Whelan was a spy. That does not mean he was working for the CIA but if his background is examined and independent reporting on his arrest evaluated his behavior was odd and he had strange involvements and strange friends. Putin knows Russian history and understands the criticisms of the Soviets in regard to lawlessness. The philosophers he has studied and promoted believe in law and order. Putin cannot help himself and does break the law, but he respects it and he has said he will not arrest innocent people just for the purpose of exchange. I am unfamiliar with any obvious examples in which he has done so. There are enough Americans in Russia committing crimes to serve Putin’s exchange needs as they arise before he would need to arrest the innocent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brittney-griner-released-in-prisoner-swap/976202.md?page=8)