# "Broadway: The American Musical" - PBS historical showcase begins 10/19/2004 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 16, 2004, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535 "2004-10-16T09:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/21 "2004-10-20T18:41:45Z")
> [@Velma](#): > > I missed the first 20 minutes or so . . . Smart, smart gal. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/22 "2004-10-20T19:41:46Z")
OK - watched it all and I really liked the clips, even though many did come from films of the Broadway musicals, but that is understandable considering the lack of filmed footage for many of the original theatrical performances. What I didn’t like were many of the talking heads. Once again, they put on their “serious hats” and everything was spoken in overly reverent, hushed tones. A show was never a hit simply because it was good, oh no - it was a hit because it captured the essence of socio-political factors in the Jewish/Afro American historical references to economic hardships during the potato famine that relates to the predominance of left handed tap dancers who were often discriminated against because… And I do not recall the name of the black theater director, but every time he spoke it was so s l o w that if he spoke any slower, his words were actually going to go backwards. Slow talking seems to be the accepted, highly theatrical presentation of respect - and don’t forget those hushed tones of awe. These people made James Lipton look like a caffeine-wired Robin Williams in comparison. Still, it is certainly worth watching just to get those great clips of performers, and performances, from the era. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/23 "2004-10-20T20:50:30Z")
I just realized they never even mentioned [Florodora](http://ibdb.com/production.asp?ID=5407) or [The Merry Widow](http://ibdb.com/production.asp?ID=6408), two of the hugest smash-hit musicals of the pre-Follies period . . . ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/24 "2004-10-21T03:15:51Z")
Tonight’s was excellent - a strong focus on _Oklahoma_, which I guess was to be expected, and I learned things I never knew about “The Cradle Will Rock.” I also somehow missed the fact, before tonight, that Nancy Walker was the original Hildy in “On The Town.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/25 "2004-10-21T03:32:27Z")
And Broadway just goes from hit to hit! Tonight’s episodes felt weaker than yesterday’s, with much less history and more glorification. True, when most people alive today think of the Broadway Musical in caps it is exactly these hits that they mean, although mostly from the evidently weaker Hollywood versions. Even in PBS’s audience there’s no appreciable demographic of people who saw the originals in the 1940s. Or heard them in the days before the long-playing cast album. I would have preferred more substance about what was going on around the hits as the entire world around them changed. The presentation made it appear that Broadway managed to go backward from Oklahoma to Sound of Music and they couldn’t have meant to do that. Big question of the night: who was that in the clip of “Summertime”? If I have it right, Clara signs the song, not Bess. According to comments at the IMDb, the ever reliable Marni Nixon dubbed Diahann Carroll, who played Clara in the 1959 movie. But comments there also say that the movie bore little relation to the play. Whoever it was had, hands down, the best voice I’ve ever heard turned to the popular song. Simply unbelievable. Beyond praise. Beyond compare. Although the first notes of “Wouldn’t It Be Loverly” sent chills down my spine. Julie Andrews isn’t as good as the mystery woman, but something about that song left my jaw scraping my knees. Which leads me to the inevitable question to precede tomorrow’s episodes. Why is it exactly that today’s Broadway shows cannot - or refuse to - have instantly recognizable hummable tunes that people can take home and make standards of? It’s impossible to believe that doing so would somehow hurt the production. Yet if it weren’t deliberate you’d think it would happen sometime just by accident. And it doesn’t. I know this is a very old complaint: I’ve just never heard a rational answer. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/26 "2004-10-21T04:11:23Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Which leads me to the inevitable question to precede tomorrow’s episodes. Why is it exactly that today’s Broadway shows cannot - or refuse to - have instantly recognizable hummable tunes that people can take home and make standards of? It’s impossible to believe that doing so would somehow hurt the production. Yet if it weren’t deliberate you’d think it would happen sometime just by accident. And it doesn’t. I know this is a very old complaint: I’ve just never heard a rational answer. You know, I’ve never thought about that. What WAS the last show that had a pop hit come out of it? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/27 "2004-10-21T05:58:58Z")
I wouldn’t call it “pop,” but there was a time when it seemed everyone (not just those who like musical theater) knew “Midnight - not a sound from the pavement. Has the moon lost her memory…” ---
**Author:** ![NotWithoutRage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NotWithoutRage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotWithoutRage)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/28 "2004-10-21T13:34:38Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > By the way, when Harvey Fierstein’s voice-over started introducing the series, did anyone else think, “boy, Julie Andrews’ voice really _has_ gone to pot?” Not sure what credit card it was for, but hearing Harvey say “what’s in YOUR wallet” is just priceless. Loved last night’s segments. I’ve never seen Ethel Merman “live” before, and was simply entranced. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/29 "2004-10-21T13:39:00Z")
Yeah, the most “recent” B’way shows to spawn pop tunes have been from the '70s and '80s: _Evita, Cats, Annie_ . . . By the way, some trivia from Part 1: did you catch the brunette wildly doing the Varsity Drag in the clip from the film version of _Good News_? it was Dorothy McNulty, who later changed her name to Penny Singleton and went “Blondie.” ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/30 "2004-10-21T13:51:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You know, I’ve never thought about that. What WAS the last show that had a pop hit come out of it? The last show I can remember having a pop hit that got major airplay was _Chess,_ which had the song, “One Night in Bangkok.” I enjoyed last night’s show, but it certainly is a very general survey of Broadway history. How can you cover the 1940s and not even mention Kurt Weill, whose music I would argue has been far more influential on current Broadway shows than Rogers & Hammerstein’s? Sure, R&H’s work is better known to the casual theatergoer, but Weill’s use of minor keys and his dramatic style have clearly influenced shows like _Urinetown_ and _Falsettoland_. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/31 "2004-10-21T13:54:58Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > The last show I can remember having a pop hit that got major airplay was _Chess,_ which had the song, “One Night in Bangkok.” That was the last one I could remember, too. It’s not like certain composers haven’t _tried_. Lloyd Webber recorded the song _The Phantom of the Opera_ as a rock track before he actually opened the musical on the West End, if I recall correctly. I guess Sarah Brightman just wasn’t a name that sold records…to pop fans, anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/32 "2004-10-21T13:58:31Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You know, I’ve never thought about that. What WAS the last show that had a pop hit come out of it? But music has gotten so compartmentalized it’s hard to use that as a stardard for success. When the only people who would describe themselves as listening to “pop” anymore are fourteen year old Carson Daly fanatics, (In the literal sense of the word.) it seems to me, if you ask people what music they listen to, you’ll hear a list of the various sub-genres they like, and showtunes are sort of their own catagory. However, When I was in high schook, it seemed like everybody had the cast album of _RENT_, even those who claimed they didn’t like “show tunes.” Also, I knew a fella whose band used to cover the lashing from _Jesus Christ Superstar_ to great affect. And, when the film of _Evita_ came out, Madonna’s version of “Don’t Cry for Me Argentina” got played a lot. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/33 "2004-10-21T14:01:20Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > And, when the film of _Evita_ came out, Madonna’s version of “Don’t Cry for Me Argentina” got played a lot. _shudder_ An Andrew Lloyd Webber dance mix is not to be borne… ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/34 "2004-10-21T14:18:49Z")
Heh. Well, I didn’t say it was a _good_ version, just that it got played on commercial radio in the 90s. By the way, does _Rocky Horror_ count? There are quite a few dance mixes of “Time Warp.” ---
**Author:** ![NotWithoutRage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NotWithoutRage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotWithoutRage)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/35 "2004-10-21T14:19:20Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > And, when the film of _Evita_ came out, Madonna’s version of “Don’t Cry for Me Argentina” got played a lot. And as bad as that movie is, the recent movie musicals surge has done a lot for Broadway. A few of the **Chicago** songs have made it to the airwaves. I’ll be interested in December to see what happens with the \*\*Phantom \*\* movie! ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/36 "2004-10-21T15:49:23Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I enjoyed last night’s show, but it certainly is a very general survey of Broadway history. How can you cover the 1940s and not even mention Kurt Weill, whose music I would argue has been far more influential on current Broadway shows than Rogers & Hammerstein’s? Sure, R&H’s work is better known to the casual theatergoer, but Weill’s use of minor keys and his dramatic style have clearly influenced shows like _Urinetown_ and _Falsettoland_. I completely agree. I was doing a few other things while I watched and so I missed a few minutes here and there, but I wondered if there had been anything on Kurt Weill and I just missed it. I guess not. Watching the clips of ‘Summertime’ reminded me how much I love that song though. It’s one of those songs that when I hear it anywhere, I just stop and _listen_ to it. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/37 "2004-10-21T15:57:59Z")
> [@NotWithoutRage](#): > > Loved last night’s segments. I’ve never seen Ethel Merman “live” before, and was simply entranced. “Stay away from voice teachers” indeed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/38 "2004-10-21T16:54:13Z")
Missed night one, saw the last 3/4 of night 2, probably won’t tune in for night 3. I got sort of shanghaied into watching it by a friend. So why is it that more Broadway shows aren’t/weren’t filmed? I’d think it would be a natural, to preserve the ephemeral performances. For those seriously interested in Broadway history I’d recommend Etahn Mordden’s books on the subject. He’s done a series, each book focusing on a different decade. To date I’ve read IIRC the one on the 20s, the 40s and the 50s. And now that I look them up on Amazon I may just have to order the 30s, the 60s and the 70s plus his new take on the last 25 years (published this month) _The Happiest Corpse I’ve Ever Seen_. Definitely not written for dummies, but quite entertaining and informative (no pictures though). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/39 "2004-10-21T21:09:19Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I just realized they never even mentioned [Florodora](http://ibdb.com/production.asp?ID=5407) or [The Merry Widow](http://ibdb.com/production.asp?ID=6408), two of the hugest smash-hit musicals of the pre-Follies period . . . Well, they totally ignored the connection between operetta and musical theater. I think there was a brief mention of Romberg, but only after he came to the U.S. It’s as if American musicals appeared out of nowhere, without any European roots. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535/40 "2004-10-22T01:29:33Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > It’s as if American musicals appeared out of nowhere, without any European roots. Much like America itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-american-musical-pbs-historical-showcase-begins-10-19-2004/269535.md?page=3)