# Broadway: The gaudiest, the most violent, the loneliest mile in the world. Say what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838 "2012-10-16T01:31:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/1 "2012-10-16T01:31:30Z")
Being someone who likes mysteries and suspense stories from the age of film noir, I often stream or download old time radio (OTR) shows to listen to on my phone. Among other things, it’s great to be able to access narrative content in situations when it isn’t practical or considerate to turn on a light to read an actual book. One show I’ve come across is _[Broadway Is My Beat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_Is_My_Beat)_, with episodes produced mainly in the early 1950s. The main character is NYPD Detective Danny Clover, voiced by Anthony Ross, who works mainly in the theater district, hence the name (although the perpetrators and victims are by no means limited to theatrical circles). At the end of every show, Ross intones > [@](#): > > Broadway…The gaudiest, the most _ **violent** _, the lonesomest mile… (Emphasis mine) _Violent?_ Really? I’m kind of surprised by that. I never heard Broadway described as a hotbed of violence, although, of course, all or most of the BIMB episodes involve a murder. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/2 "2012-10-16T01:39:54Z")
Broadway runs right through Times Square. I don’t know about the early 50s, but by the late 1950s it had started to go downhill. From [here:](http://www.ij.org/stern-perspective) > [@](#): > > The area began to decay during the late 1950s after the sex industry pushed out the once-lustrous theaters that had been struggling economically since the Great Depression of the 1930s. The decline was rapid and hastened by the police’s abandonment of the area. > [@](#): > > Already by 1960, the heart of Times Square—42nd Street between Seventh and Eighth Avenue—was frequently asserted as “the ‘worst’ [block] in town,” as pointed out by The New York Times.4 The article’s author found that the paradox of 42nd Street was that “places that attract deviants and persons looking for trouble are interspersed with places of high standards of food, drink and service. Some of them will not serve an un-escorted woman.”5 The 1969 hit movie Midnight Cowboy accurately depicted the Times Square of that decade: gritty, dark and desperate, a zone distinctly apart from its more productive and habitable neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/3 "2012-10-16T02:02:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Broadway runs right through Times Square. I don’t know about the early 50s, but by the late 1950s it had started to go downhill. From [here:](http://www.ij.org/stern-perspective) Thanks for the link. Being mostly unfamiliar with New York, I had thought that the theater area was entirely south of Times Square. On the other hand, the bad rep of the Square during the time you mention was well known to just about everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/4 "2012-10-16T02:39:47Z")
From the classic Broadway musical 42nd Street > [@](#): > > Come and meet those dancing feet, > On the avenue I’m taking you to, > Forty-Second Street. > Hear the beat of dancing feet, > It’s the song I love the melody of, > Forty-Second Street. > > Little “nifties” from the Fifties, > Innocent and sweet; > Sexy ladies from the Eighties, > Who are indiscreet. > > They’re side by side, they’re glorified > **Where the underworld can meet the elite,** > Forty-Second Street. The musical was first performed in 1980 but it is based on a 1933 movie. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/5 "2012-10-16T02:48:10Z")
There is no way it was worse than Hell’s Kitchen or Five Points. ---
**Author:** ![Levolor\_the\_Blind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc8723/32.png) [@Levolor\_the\_Blind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Levolor_the_Blind)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/6 "2012-10-16T02:50:01Z")
I don’t know much about Broadway in the 50’s, but I love listening to this show. Sgt. Tartaglia is the best. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/7 "2012-10-16T03:14:59Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > There is no way it was worse than Hell’s Kitchen or Five Points. Hells Kitchen is basically one block over. ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/8 "2012-10-16T03:24:07Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > There is no way it was worse than Hell’s Kitchen or Five Points. > [@Zebra](#): > > Hells Kitchen is basically one block over. And Five Points had been cleared out and razed decades before the early 1950s, the era OP is talking about. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/9 "2012-10-16T03:24:48Z")
one of the better cop shows, drama and restrained comedy. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/10 "2012-10-16T03:34:40Z")
Having visited Times Square many a time in the 60s, I can say that it wasn’t particularly dirty, dangerous, or violent. It wasn’t until the 70s and 80s that the sex trade took over. In the 60s, there were a few theaters showing dirty movies, but they were a block or so away from Times Square, and I can’t see what they mean about lack of police presence: there’s been a police substation at Times Square since the 60s (and it’s still there). And the Broadway section of the time wasn’t much different than it is today: lots of movie theaters showing Hollywood films, some restaurants, and several places to buy souvenirs. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/11 "2012-10-16T15:59:38Z")
It may have been an outdated reference to the truly violent “Tenderloin District” which that stretch of Broadway was once the heart of. > **[Tenderloin, Manhattan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin,_Manhattan)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}40°44′56″N 73°59′17″W / 40.749°N 73.988°W / 40.749; -73.988 > The Tenderloin was an entertainment and red-light district in the heart of the New York City borough of Manhattan during the late 19th and ear... ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/12 "2012-10-16T16:28:36Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Thanks for the link. Being mostly unfamiliar with New York, I had thought that the theater area was entirely south of Times Square. On the other hand, the bad rep of the Square during the time you mention was well known to just about everyone. Nearly all the theaters in the district are [north of Times Square.](http://www.nyc.com/maps/broadway.aspx) But Times Square is basically part of the theater district. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/13 "2012-10-16T16:32:32Z")
Broadway is actually over 15 miles long. It runs the entire length of the island. In fact it continues north of Manhattan. It goes through many neighborhoods, many of them bad. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/broadway-the-gaudiest-the-most-violent-the-loneliest-mile-in-the-world-say-what/637838/14 "2012-10-17T23:13:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Nearly all the theaters in the district are [north of Times Square.](http://www.nyc.com/maps/broadway.aspx) But Times Square is basically part of the theater district. I know it even less than I thought!