# Brontosaurus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [March 11, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627 "2002-03-11T17:44:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jonfromdenver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@jonfromdenver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonfromdenver)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627/1 "2002-03-11T17:44:18Z")
Call me crazy, but perhaps Cecil’s 1980 classic column, [What color were dinosaurs?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_010.html) should be updated to relay the fact that there is no such thing as a brontosaurus. Just a technical glitch, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627/2 "2002-03-11T17:49:46Z")
I was gonna start a thread, but I had to log in and you beat me to it! (damn you **jonfromdenver**!!!) I was gonna mention that I have come right up close and personal with dino skin even though the column says there ain’t no such thing. But, since the column is older than me and there have been significant scientific discoveries since, I’ll let it slide. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627/3 "2002-03-11T20:39:01Z")
Over at TOSDMB (The “Other” SDMB), I posted the following: > [@](#): > > Real brontosauruses did, in fact, walk the earth. The problem lies with the correct nomentclature of these beasties. In 1877, O. C. Marsh found the incomplete skeleton of a sauropod, and dubbed it _Apatosaurus_. Two years later, he found a much more complete sauropod skeleton (_sans_ head), and dubbed this critter Brontosaurus . Unfortunately for the poor Bronto, it was later discovered that the Bronto bones were of the same species as the critter he had found previously: _Apatosaurus_. Laws of nomenclature being what they are, the first name had priority; thus the correct name for Brontosaurus was actually _Apatosaurus_ (as it happens, that was also the correct name for _Apatosaurus_). > > The whole _Camarasaurus_ thing is a separate issue. The Brontosaurus specimen that Marsh found was lacking a head; however, a _Camarasaurus_ head was found (relatively) nearby, and presumed by Marsh to belong to the headless skeleton (or, at the very least, if not that head, then one like it). Thus, Bronto went on display around the country, with the double indignity of having both the wrong name and the wrong head. > > That Brontosaurus had the wrong name was discovered by Elmer Riggs in 1903. That _Apatosaurus_ had the wrong head was not discovered until the late 1970’s; display skeletons underwent changes in the 1980’s, giving them the correct skull. Note that the species name, _excelsus_, was kept for the Brontosaurus specimen (thus, instead of _Apatosaurus ajax_ and _Brontosaurus excelsus_, we now have _A. ajax_ and _A. excelsus_). > > Even after Riggs’ re-examination of the whole _Apatosaurus_ / Brontosaurus thing, Brontosaurus still remains a “popular” name, if not a scientific one, so Cecil’s use of the word is not necessarily incorrect. > > Note also that since Cecil’s article, dino skin impressions have been found. But, we still don’t have any info on dino colors. > > [Miscellaneous spelling and punctuation errors corrected from original] I feel that it is incorrect to simply state, “There’s no such thng as Brontosaurus.” The _animal_ did exist, regardless of what its “correct” name is. That the name Brontosaurus has been rejected in favor of the older _Apatosaurus_ is entirely due to the arbitrary laws of biological nomenclature (which, admittedly, are in place to avoid the confusion exemplified by the _Apatosaurus_ / _Brontosaurus_ situation). And, despite its non-scientific nature, “brontosaurus” still remains a popular name for _Apatosaurus_-like sauropods. One doesn’t, after all, say that cougars don’t exist, despite the fact that their “proper” name is _Felis concolor_. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627/4 "2002-03-11T22:10:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Darwin’s Finch \* > **Unfortunately for the poor Bronto, it was later discovered that the Bronto bones were of the same species as the critter he had found previously: Apatosaurus.** I just realized I made a bit of a goof here. The _Brontosaurus_ bones were found to belong to the same **genus** as those found earlier; specifically, that of _Apatosaurus_. The two were still classified as different species: _ajax_ vs. _excelsus_. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2002, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627/5 "2002-03-12T14:48:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Little Bird \* > \*\* I was gonna mention that I have come right up close and personal with dino skin…_\* I’d like to hear more about this. What do you mean? A cast of dinosaur skin in rock? What? Where? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627/6 "2002-03-12T23:38:06Z")
The appropriateness of the name brontosaurus was also discussed in this Straight Dope column: [Is it true the brontosaurus never really existed?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_011.html) ---
**Author:** ![MuscaDomestica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@MuscaDomestica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuscaDomestica)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627/7 "2002-03-20T15:09:30Z")
I always thought that the Brontosaurus was just the common name for Apatosaurus Ajax, I do not see what is wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2002, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brontosaurus/97627/8 "2002-03-21T09:09:04Z")
The columns mentioned in this thread can also be found on pages 10-11 of Cecil Adams’ book «[_The Straight Dope (1984; reissued 1986, 1998)_](https://securesite.chireader.com/cgi-bin/dopestore/buystuff.bat#tsd)» and pages 11-14 of Cecil Adams’ book «[_More of the Straight Dope (1988)_](https://securesite.chireader.com/cgi-bin/dopestore/buystuff.bat#motsd)».