# Brooklyn:Manhattan::Oakland:SF??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 24, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357 "2008-10-24T14:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/1 "2008-10-24T14:58:57Z")
First fiction I ever wrote (I was 12, maybe 13) was about a kid in Oakland falling for a SF girl, me having been a Brooklyn kid imagining my teen years hanging out in the Village (which eventually happened, and was exciting, but not exactly how I’d imagined). I’ve never been in northern California, to this day, but I imagine the relationship between Oakland and SF to be roughly like that between Brooklyn and SF–unfashionable workingclass town across the bridge from the big, bustling glorious glamorous city of aspirations, etc. In which ways was I an idiot when I was 12? In which ways was I on the money? Assuming I wanted to write such a story, but not want to set it in the NYC area, is there a better parallel pair of cities that have such a relationship? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/2 "2008-10-24T15:18:30Z")
Brooklyn is superior to Manhattan in every conceivable way. I am an unbiased source. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/3 "2008-10-24T15:47:20Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > unfashionable workingclass town across the bridge from the big, bustling glorious glamorous city of aspirations, etc. . . is there a better parallel pair of cities that have such a relationship? Chicago and Gary Minneapolis and St. Paul Dallas and Fort Worth Seattle and Tacoma Philadephia and Camden Washington and Baltimore Los Angeles and the “the Valley” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/4 "2008-10-24T16:16:34Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Brooklyn is superior to Manhattan in every conceivable way. > > I am an unbiased source. Brooklyn is over-rated. I am also an unbiased source. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/5 "2008-10-24T17:04:41Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Brooklyn is over-rated. True. I miss Astoria. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/6 "2008-10-24T20:09:35Z")
I don’t know that I’d make that claim about Oakland and SF. SF has its fair share of working class neighborhoods, (Protrero, Cow Hollow, Western Add, Bernal), and a couple neighborhoods that are as bad or worse than Oakland’s worst neighborhoods. (Hunter’s Point, Vis Vallet, The View). Conversely, Oakland has some neighborhoods that rival SF’s wealthiest (around Lake Merritt, up in the hills). And there’s far more glorious, glamorous cities in the Bay Area that are more exclusive than SF. (Ross, Mill Valley, Tiburon, Belvedere, Moraga, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/7 "2008-10-24T21:00:29Z")
However, in the Bay Area, when referring to San Francisco, one need only say, “The City.” Much as if someone were to say, “I’m going to New York City,” Manhattan is usually assumed. If one were visiting Brooklyn, he would most probably state Brooklyn specifically. Oakland has it even worse than that. If someone in San Francisco was visiting Oakland they’d most probably say, “I’m heading over to the East Bay.” Oakland doesn’t even have it’s own name used half the time. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/8 "2008-10-24T21:45:33Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > “I’m heading over to the East Bay.” A’s, Warriors or Yoshi’s? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/9 "2008-10-24T21:47:18Z")
My old apartment when my ex-wife turned into a freak-show. But I digress. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/10 "2008-10-24T21:48:50Z")
Memphis and West Memphis. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/11 "2008-10-24T21:58:53Z")
Sacramento and West Sacramento Ventura and Oxnard 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/12 "2008-10-24T22:07:36Z")
San Francisco versus San Jose is probably closer to what the OP is looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/13 "2008-10-24T22:41:31Z")
Clearly, Manhattan: Brooklyn :: The OC : Chino. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/14 "2008-10-25T00:30:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > San Francisco versus San Jose is probably closer to what the OP is looking for. No way. San Jose might have an inferiority complex, but it is totally independent, and has the capital of Silicon Valley stuff going for it. People from far away commute into San Jose to work. As for the OP, my father was from Manhattan, my mother was from Brooklyn, and I grew up in Queens - but I don’t get that same kind of feel for the Oakland/SF relationship. Oakland doesn’t have the same quirky reputation. The Bronx and Manhattan might be closer, actually. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/15 "2008-10-25T03:30:00Z")
Yeah, I think he going for more of a Palo Alto/East Palo Alto thing. That highway makes a world of difference. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/16 "2008-10-25T16:58:20Z")
I have spent only the tiniest bit of time in New York, but I grew up in the Bay Area and I don’t think that’s really equivalent. Oakland has its own thing going on. It’s not the same as the City, but it’s interesting and cool in its own way. And it’s not like it’s all blue collar - they’ve got some seriously pricey real estate up in the Oakland/Berkeley hills. There’s definitely some small amount of bitterness over Oakland being overlooked (remember when the first new Bay Bridge design was proposed a few years back and Oakland went ballistic because their side of the bridge was uglier than the San Francisco side?), but the fact that they are, in fact, two separate cities - unlike Manhattan and Brooklyn - does make a pretty big difference. One thing that makes the Bay Area different from most other metropolitan areas is how many different entities make it up. Like, the LA area is really just two counties (I’m throwing in Orange County here) and the Chicago area is totally dominated by the city of Chicago and Cook County. The Bay Area is made up of nine counties (ten if you count Santa Cruz, I guess), and has three fairly large cities. It’s kind of amazing anything ever gets done, really. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/17 "2008-10-25T17:41:55Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I have spent only the tiniest bit of time in New York, but I grew up in the Bay Area and I don’t think that’s really equivalent. Oakland has its own thing going on. It’s not the same as the City, but it’s interesting and cool in its own way. And it’s not like it’s all blue collar - they’ve got some seriously pricey real estate up in the Oakland/Berkeley hills. But you could substitute Brooklyn for Oakland in the above paragraph, and nothing would change. Brooklyn has it’s own thing going on, it’s interesting and cool in its own way, and it has some seriously pricey real estate. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/18 "2008-10-25T19:38:41Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > But you could substitute Brooklyn for Oakland in the above paragraph, and nothing would change. Brooklyn has it’s own thing going on, it’s interesting and cool in its own way, and it has some seriously pricey real estate. You know what, you’re right. I don’t know what I was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/19 "2008-10-26T03:47:59Z")
I think this is a pretty apt comparison. People who live in Oakland move to Brooklyn, and vice-versa. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357/20 "2008-10-26T07:14:22Z")
I think a better comparison would be Manhattan: Newark. When all’s said and done, Brooklyn is still New York. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brooklyn-manhattan-oakland-sf/469357.md?page=2)