# Brother-in-Law: Mentally ill, or irredeemably stupid? (long)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 24, 2017, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736 "2017-06-24T06:37:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/1 "2017-06-24T06:37:17Z")
Need to vent. Don’t need solutions - _I_ know what needs to be done, but I can’t make anyone do what they need to be do.
My niece has brand-new facial scars. Their family dog, a huskey, launched into her face and gave her four parallel gashes running from below her jawline up towards her ear. All four canine teeth engaged and left significant wounds, requiring stitches. This is a Level 4 bite; i.e. one to four wounds from a single bite, with at least one wound exceeding half the length of the dog’s canines in depth. i.e. NOT a ‘nip.’ Not an accident. This is a bite with intent. ☹
This has been building. The dog has issues. There are _relationship_ issues between the dog, and various family members. The dog REALLY doesn’t like the niece he bit, and dislikes my sister, too. Even though she cares for it (walks, feeds, etc.) The dog is hyper-attatched to my BiL, is somewhat resource-defensive, and is easily excited. NOT a good combination, but one that can be worked with, and ameliorated. I have the skills.\*\*\*\*\* I have OFFERED the skills - without judgement or blame. My BiL is _offended_ that anyone should offer him help with his “perfect” dog, and is scathing to my sister that she might even consider asking for my assistance.\*\*\*\*\*\*
My BiL has been actively posioning his son’s mind against my sister, and my neices. He has been heard telling his son that the women in the house have obviously _done_ something to the dog (entirely unneccessary, for a dog such as described, to become unstable to multiple family members, without what a _human_ would consider provocation - Dog’s react _differently_ than humans. I’ve seen it. I’ve _dealt_ with it!). It’s to the point now that it’s full-on gender wars in their household. My nephew, loyal to hs father, was bullying his newly-scarred sister, trying to determine what she “did to the dog?” The dog has become more important to them than their bloody-faced sister and daughter.
What was her crime? To squeal and flinch when her mother tickled her.
That’s it.
Everything.
To a dog that already does not trust you, and is excitable AND defensive, a sudden motion, especially accompanied by a strange and loud sound, is more than enough to trigger an instant - and unfortunate - reaction. He may not have WANTED to hurt her. He may have been trying to scare this untrustworthy, flailing, noisy menace away. But he was there, and she was there, and BAM! She was hit, and bleeding. Does it sound like I blame the dog? I do not. Dogs are highly programmable. This one has been set up to fail. :mad:
I could’ve helped them prevent this. I could’ve helped make my BiL a skilled handler. I could, even now, help _reprogram_ the dog to reduce the likelihood of a repeat (unfortunately, the ‘bite’ option will always be there for the dog - but I can help push it down the priority response list) But only if allowed. And NO ONE will tell him that he needs expert help. :smack: :mad:
Above, in the title, I listed mental illness. I haven’t really discussed the reasoning for that, yet. My sister finally revealed to me that he’s become increasingly defensive and paranoid. That he has become increasingly suspicious and disdainful towards her, and her (his!) daughters. She thinks he’s tipping into schizophrenia. I don’t know the symptoms she’s seeing, but adult-onset schizophrenia _is_ a thing.
Yes, she’s tried to get him help, but without a driving incident, or a proper diagnosis, there’s little that can be done to _force_ him to get help. And he doesn’t want any.
Or maybe it’s adult-onset asshole that’s happening. I can’t say - I live 30 miutes away, and only occasionally see them. I’m going to assert that whatever else he may or may not be suffering, he’s _definately_ dislayed the attributes of World Class FUCKSTICK.
His daughter is emotionally and physically wounded, His son is, in loyalty to his father, mirroring my BiL’s _shitheaded_ behavior, making the wounds deeper. And teh dog those two _ **pinheads** _ think they’re protecting? Its life is hanging by a thread, because they’re doing the _exact_ wrong things!
Where I sit, the dog needs to go to a different home - one without children. Immediately. One WITH an experienced handler (I can’t - I’m already full-up with special cases). Without help, there _will_ be more blood, and my BiL is already blaming my niece. Any guesses what will happen if she gets bit again, and animal services destroy the dog? (Yes, the police have the details - ER Staffers called, and they did in interview and took pictures before teh wonds were closed). But my BiL is doubling down, and is adamant that the dog is going nowhere. He’s bunkering up, mentally. He’s digging in on top of this hill, where he’s planted his flag, and he’s ready to die there.
I REALLY want him to be sick in the head. REALLY. Because if he’s not, then I have to think that my sister is sleeping next to an uncaring, calous, malicious, festering shithook - one who is turning my nephew into his Mini-Me.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
\*\*\*\*\* Ask me about my current project - a 110# shepherd-type with hyper-attachment, resource guarding, fearfulness, fear aggression, and noise reactivity - and whom has triggers involving small, slender women (go figure). If I can bring THAT dog down off the ledge (and I _am_), I can certainly help my BiL learn how to help _his_ dog!
\*\*\*\*\*\* An additional fucked-up thing is that we share many of the same interests. We could easily enough have been friends. All he ever needed to do is be open to the possiblity; I’d have gladly bridged the gap.
---
### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/2 "2017-06-24T06:38:51Z")
Oh, one other thing: Shithead-in-Law has inssted on being responsible for medical care of the dog. Which he has defensively clung to even a he’s mis-handled it. Yes, the dog is out of date on ALL immunizations. Animal Services is going to LOVE that. :mad:
---
### Author:  [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/3 "2017-06-24T07:23:20Z")
Is there still any possibility the police might determine that yeah, this dog has to be separated from its owner? (or I’m guessing that window’s already passed) (for now?) That’s shitty about your niece - sounds like her dad seems more concerned about the welfare of his dog than his daughter. Scary.
---
### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/4 "2017-06-24T07:33:27Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#):
>
> Is there still any possibility the police might determine that yeah, this dog has to be separated from its owner? (or I’m guessing that window’s already passed) (for now?) That’s shitty about your niece - sounds like her dad seems more concerned about the welfare of his dog than his daughter. Scary.
The window on police action is open. Yes, they _may_ decide to intervene, but according to my sister, the medics were reassuring my niece, who still loves the dog that savaged her - that doesn’t _like_ her, that “no, they won’t be taking her dog away.”
I may not have been clear, but the bite is less than 18 hours ago. The trouble has been brewing for quite some time.
Yes, it appears that my Sick and/or Criminally Stupid BiL has more care for the dog than his daughter. And yes, that’s got me quite worried.
---
### Author:  [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/5 "2017-06-24T07:43:55Z")
He sounds like an asshole. Based solely on your description here, schizophrenia sounds like a stretch. I had a schizophrenic uncle. Trust me, you know psychosis when you see it. Which isn’t to say there aren’t plenty of mental illnesses he might qualify for. I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume the chances of voluntarily getting himself help are nil.
I’m so angry on your niece’s behalf. Maybe she can get help to learn to cope with having an asshole for a father. Consider your rant heard.
---
### Author:  [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/6 "2017-06-24T07:53:11Z")
Child protective services. This sucks.
---
### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/7 "2017-06-24T08:00:10Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#):
>
> He sounds like an asshole. Based solely on your description here, schizophrenia sounds like a stretch. I had a schizophrenic uncle. Trust me, you know psychosis when you see it. Which isn’t to say there aren’t plenty of mental illnesses he might qualify for. I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume the chances of voluntarily getting himself help are nil.
>
> I’m so angry on your niece’s behalf. Maybe she can get help to learn to cope with having an asshole for a father. Consider your rant heard.
I don’t know what symptoms my sister has seen. I agree, this seems more likely to be adult-onset Asshole. I _want_ her to be right - because that means there’s a possiblity he might find treatment. I don’t know of any cure for Asshole, save maybe a swift boot to the head, and that’s generally frowned upon.
My sister says he’s been resisting help for longer than we knew - years. So, yeah. Nope. Not going to seek help on his own. I’d happily throw him in a hammerlock and frog-march his ass to therapy, but that’s also not in the cards.
My family is known for our loyalty to our partners, but he’s finally managed to break my sister’s loyalty, and now the dirty laundry is beginning to get sorted.
:mad:
> [@TokyoBayer](#):
>
> Child protective services. This sucks.
Possibly. Unlikely, unfortunately, because emotional manipulation and abuse is harder to document and quantify. They don’t generally get involved in animal bite cases.
My sister’s family is low on the socio-economic ladder, and there are health challenges. Financially-speaking, there are some real limits on their options. ☹
---
### Author:  [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/8 "2017-06-24T08:19:08Z")
If its any consolation, schizophrenia is every bit as incurable as asshole. But there are other treatable possibilities. Depression and anxiety could manifest as irritability or paranoia, an angry response to anxiety is not uncommon, particularly in men. On the other hand, being mentally ill doesn’t give you lisence to endanger your children. The diagnosis could be asshole either way.
I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be especially considering your level of expertise. That dog could very well lose its life for no good reason. I wonder if he realizes that.
---
### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/9 "2017-06-24T08:29:55Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#):
>
> If its any consolation, schizophrenia is every bit as incurable as asshole. But there are other treatable possibilities. Depression and anxiety could manifest as irritability or paranoia, an angry response to anxiety is not uncommon, particularly in men. On the other hand, being mentally ill doesn’t give you lisence to endanger your children. The diagnosis could be asshole either way.
I may use some of these words to my sister.
> [@](#):
>
> I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be especially considering your level of expertise. That dog could very well lose its life for no good reason. I wonder if he realizes that.
I think he’s got some small idea, but wishes to pretend it’s not true. I think that’s part of his angry, defensive reaction - if only somehow he can make it not HIS fault, and make it the fault of someone else (His daughter, his wife), then everything will somehow magically be OK. What that says about his priorities is terrifying. His ego, and his dog, have become more important than his wife and daughter, and yet _he’s still doing things that will get his dog killed_. He needs HELP, not a bunker! His \*DOG \*needs help!
I’m not an expert - I’m _experienced_. That means I know enough to go get real expert _help_. Also, that I will USE that help, instead of dismissing it. I know where to find help, and I get it _before_ I get into deep waters. I can _teach_ my BiL how to do the same - If only he’d _let me help._ Yeah, frustrated? In spadesful - in dumptruck loads full. It’s insane-making.
And then there’s what he’s done to my sister’s loyalty. He has NO idea what he’s broken, how rare it is, and how valuable.
It makes me want to weep - or smash things.
---
### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/10 "2017-06-24T08:36:22Z")
Gods. It’s 0430-something, and I’m so spun-up I don’t even feel tired. I suspect i’m exhausted, but all I feel is sadness and anger and frustration.
My project dog is making distress noises because I’ve broken the routine, and he’s not sure what’s happening, just that it’s not part of the routine. I’m going to go reassure him, and maybe get some sleep. My niece is going to need advice on dogs tomorrow, and I’d better be rested and alert.
---
### Author:  [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/11 "2017-06-24T09:03:40Z")
Good luck. Feel free to join us in the Insomnia thread if you need to.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
---
### Author:  [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/12 "2017-06-24T10:30:04Z")
That almost sounds like my brother and his dog, Brody. One of my nieces (by marriage…my SiL had 4 kids from a previous marriage) is afraid of dogs, so Brody - a German Shepherd - only gets half of the house, and the rest of the house is separated by a baby gate. He has no interest in the other half of the house, but barks his head off whenever she walks by.
But he’s bitten her younger sister twice. My brother is convinced that she spooked him somehow.
Her mom is understandably running out of patience with the dog, and has had daydreams where he gets loose and disappears, or that he’s dead.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
---
### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/13 "2017-06-24T10:38:09Z")
Dog bites person: dog gets put down. Simple.
---
### Author:  [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/14 "2017-06-24T11:26:19Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Originally Posted by TokyoBayer View Post
> > Child protective services. This sucks.
>
> Possibly. Unlikely, unfortunately, because emotional manipulation and abuse is harder to document and quantify. They don’t generally get involved in animal bite cases.
You don’t have to prove emotional abuse. The child still has four bloody wounds on her face. You pick up the phone and call CPS yourself. Be sure to get photos of those wounds, by the way.
Don’t even talk about the emotional stuff and the suspected schizophrenia. Just say that your niece’s husky tried to bite her face off and your brother-in-law is refusing to get rid of the dog (which doesn’t have its shots.)
Then call animal control yourself and repeat that.
Then, if it’s necessary, drive your sister to the police and have her, the girl’s mother, make a police report.
Then, if necessary, help her move out. She owes it to her daughter to protect her from her father’s … oh, let’s say, _contempt_. She owes it to her son, too.
It’s a shame about the dog, of course, but honestly, he’s not the priority here. If there’s any hope for him, he has to be put in a new home. And sadly, there might not be any hope for him.
---
### Author:  [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/15 "2017-06-24T14:13:55Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#):
>
> \*\*\*\*\* Ask me about my current project - a 110# shepherd-type with hyper-attachment, resource guarding, fearfulness, fear aggression, and noise reactivity - and whom has triggers involving small, slender women (go figure). If I can bring THAT dog down off the ledge (and I _am_), I can certainly help my BiL learn how to help _his_ dog!
I love that you do this work, that you have this kind of passion for the cause. I’m a big fan of GSDs.
> [@Tranquilis](#):
>
> I think he’s got some small idea, but wishes to pretend it’s not true. I think that’s part of his angry, defensive reaction - if only somehow he can make it not HIS fault, and make it the fault of someone else (His daughter, his wife), then everything will somehow magically be OK. What that says about his priorities is terrifying. His ego, and his dog, have become more important than his wife and daughter, and yet he’s still doing things that will get his dog killed. He needs HELP, not a bunker! His DOG needs help!
Your sister has a duty as a mother to keep her children safe. The family dog is dangerous. Period. Everything else is kind of irrelevant at this point, or at least it is in the world of state-sanctioned semi-professional assholes who have any kind of passion for _their_ cause, if you get my meaning. She needs to know that, and do something proactive about it besides crying on your shoulder.
---
### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/16 "2017-06-24T14:31:33Z")
\*\*Mentally ill, or irredeemably stupid? \*\*
Could be both. Your sister’s got some mental issues too (sorry, but you know it).
---
### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/17 "2017-06-24T15:19:15Z")
> [@Merneith](#):
>
> You don’t have to prove emotional abuse. The child still has four bloody wounds on her face. You pick up the phone and call CPS yourself. Be sure to get photos of those wounds, by the way.
>
> Don’t even talk about the emotional stuff and the suspected schizophrenia. Just say that your niece’s husky tried to bite her face off and your brother-in-law is refusing to get rid of the dog (which doesn’t have its shots.)
>
> Then call animal control yourself and repeat that.
>
> Then, if it’s necessary, drive your sister to the police and have her, the girl’s mother, make a police report.
>
> Then, if necessary, help her move out. She owes it to her daughter to protect her from her father’s … oh, let’s say, _contempt_. She owes it to her son, too.
> It’s a shame about the dog, of course, but honestly, he’s not the priority here. If there’s any hope for him, he has to be put in a new home. And sadly, there might not be any hope for him.
The police report exists already - ER staff made sure of that. There’ll be a conference of the extended family later today on next steps. Calling CPS has consequences we need to be ready for.
Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
---
### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/18 "2017-06-24T15:23:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> \*\*Mentally ill, or irredeemably stupid? \*\*
>
> Could be both. Your sister’s got some mental issues too (sorry, but you know it).
Yeah. This stuff never happens in a vacuum. Even if she’d been mentally clean before, there’s no way she is now. And the fact is, almost no one is perfectly mentally clean. Her emotional state is a wreck.
Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
---
### Author:  [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/19 "2017-06-24T15:26:21Z")
I think it’s time for Mama to get a backbone. He might not be willing to work on his own problems, but she can certainly choose to work on herself.
---
### Author:  [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736/20 "2017-06-24T15:43:17Z")
It’s such a sad situation. I can relate to the niece - being blamed for things out of my control by an abusive and angry father. No protection from mom.
If your spouse is abusive to your children (and not caring that your daughter was attacked by a dog and worse - blaming her for it and getting her brother to go along with it is abuse) you need to remove the children and yourself from the situation.
I know it will never happen but that’s what needs to happen.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brother-in-law-mentally-ill-or-irredeemably-stupid-long/789736.md?page=2)