# Brotherhood of the Wolf (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390 "2002-10-22T15:43:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/41 "2002-10-22T22:24:41Z")
[Lion](http://www.olygamefarm.com/Lion.gif) [Wolf](http://www.queticofoundation.org/gallery/wolf.jpg) [Black bear](http://www.jaxzoo.org/animals/Black%20Bear.jpg) Can’t find an up close shot of a brown bear’s eyes. The beast in the movie had the eyes of a lion. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/42 "2002-10-22T22:26:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Does he bind it up and just walk around with a strange bump on one side, or does he have a detachable arm, or what? Binds it. It was rather messed up, with bad scarring from the lion attack, and he wore it tightly against his chest. It’s not as if noble men of the early 19th century walked around without clothes all the time, so it wouldn’t have been too terribly difficult to hide from most people. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/43 "2002-10-22T22:34:48Z")
I thought it was a wolf. And did anybody notice that Tonto spent almost as much time primping his purty black hair than he did actually kicking ass? I mean, sure, it was silky smooth, but geez. I didn’t know Ninjas were so vain. Definitely one of the worst movies ever, though. It was actually painful to watch in some parts. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/44 "2002-10-22T22:40:46Z")
Actually The Jim Henson Creature Shop created “the beast” and apparently it really isn’t ever specified what it is. (this garnered from reading far too many reviews on this odd flick) However, I have a question. Is the guy with one arm, the same guy whose are mas ripped off by the lion? And if he is, did it grow back? I’m a bit lost here. Scylla, you might enjoy [Roger Ebert’s](http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/2002/01/011103.html) review. Although he seems to generally like the film he has his to say about it: > [@](#): > > Also lurking about, usually with leaves in her hair, is the sultry Sylvia (Monica Bellucci), who travels with men who might as well have “Lout” displayed on a sign around their necks,… ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/45 "2002-10-22T23:20:03Z")
> [@](#): > > However, I have a question. Is the guy with one arm, the same guy whose are mas ripped off by the lion? And if he is, did it grow back? I’m a bit lost here. He didn’t actually lose his arm. It was badly mangled, but for some reason, he told everyone he’d lost it. Probably so that the people in the Brotherhood wouldn’t realize that he and Jean-Francois were one and the same. And **Jester** , the only thing wrong with Mani is that he didn’t go around in a loincloth enough. Yum! ---
**Author:** ![tisiphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tisiphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tisiphone)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/46 "2002-10-22T23:48:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > \*\*That’s pretty fucking odd, since there _are_ no bears in Africa, and arguably never have been. I think there are a few possible specimens of the African bear, each about 4 million years old. > > There is the legend of the Nandi bear, from east Africa. Hairy fish, Nandi bear, what’s a little more cryptozoology. \*\* Um, sorry **Maeglin** , **Scylla** , that’s not [entirely](http://www.geocities.com/thylacine11/AtlasBear.html) true. The Atlas bear of Libya and Morocco only became extinct sometime in the mid-1800’s. Arguably, at the time the movie was supposed to be set in, there would’ve been a couple left. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TPWombat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbce88/32.png) [@TPWombat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TPWombat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/47 "2002-10-22T23:50:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > **As the credits roll, we later learn that there was this thing called the French Revolution where all the peasants revolted and chopped off the heads of the nobility. I’m not sure what this had to do with the rest of the film, but there it is. I guess it was supposed to add some historical verisimilitude or something.** IMO this was a beautifully poignant Thing. IIRC we hear the young Marquis D’Apchier, who came across as thoroughly decent, honourable, & loyal, saying how he really wanted to sail off to new lands and adventure with Fronsac and Marianne, but passes this up because he feels such a deep loyalty to France, and believes his duty is to stay and help make her great etc. The scene with him walking thru a jeering crowd is, I presume, the people of France repaying his devotion by sending him to the guillotine. Sniff. How beautifully tragic. The film is **gorgeous** , damnit!!! Stop nit-picking! Grrrrrrr. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/48 "2002-10-23T00:19:39Z")
Nit-picking?! The movie featured a _Half-Flesh-Half-Machine-Pier-1-Imported-Wolf/Lion/Bear-Marauder-Of-Doooooom! (reverb, reverb)._ IMHO, making fun of it is hardly nitpicking. It practically begs to be mocked. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/49 "2002-10-23T00:21:20Z")
My guess would be the now-extinct Barbary Lion. It’s not the movie’s fault that you chose to rent the dubbed version. Often, for whatever reason, dubbing is done with a different translation than the subtitles. I think the problem here may be one of expectations. The movie was marketed in the US as if it were a serious movie, when actually it’s a handsomely-photographed B-movie. It’s like a French Hammer movie, and if you approach it that way, the goofy elements – the Iroquois Ninja and the magic potions, and the insane villain who perversely pretends to be one-armed – fit right in. And of course the fight scenes were very well-done, although I wish they had looked more European; there’s an ancient tradition of staff-fighting in Europe, but what I saw looked more Asian. Did anybody else notice the name of the ship at the end? ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/50 "2002-10-23T00:36:09Z")
Actually, all y’all are wrong: the monster was quite clearly the now-extinct South Algerian Lionbear which had a well-documented habit of climbing into any wicker object it came across hence the wicker ‘armor’ you mentioned. It also had a noted fondness for French-based cuisine which I think explains all the shouting and running about (easily confused with the martial arts) that occurs during the movie. It’s clear to me this thing is a wildlife documentary and was never intended to be viewed as a feature-length movie. Think of it as a French version of that crazed Australian croc-wrestling guy’s show. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/51 "2002-10-23T01:40:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Did anybody else notice the name of the ship at the end? Wolfbrother, wasn’t it? I had the idea it was named for Mani, since the wolf was his totem. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/52 "2002-10-23T02:26:29Z")
It ain’t a lion or a lioness. I watched the deleted scenes, and some of the fight scenes with the cgi beast, and finally the scene where Fronsac shot it after petting it. In the deleted scene where they show the pawprint, it is literally huge. The print is roughly a foot across, The three pads all have long wicked claws extending from them. Everybody knows cats have retractable claws and bears don’t. This pawprint matches the profile of a bear both because of the size and the claws, but not a cat. The beast is easily the size of a horse except thicker. Even with the wicker armor you’re talking about a creature on it’s own that has to be 800 pounds or more. There ain’t no cats that big. In dubbed english Fronsac estimates the size of the beast based on the bite profile. I memorized the figure he gave, but now I forgot what it was. Too big for a cat though. In the Beast’s death scene it’s hair is coarse and black just like I said. It’s bellow is distinctly uncatlike. It bellows quite a bit. It could be a boar or a bear or something else, but it’s clearly no cat. The bad guy did get his arm ripped off by a lion, but in the death scene they don’t say that he brought back the cubs of the beast that ripped off his arm, but simply the cubs of a beast he found in Africa. It has a very long snout, and doglike jaws that have that weird wrinkled shit that dogs have, and a very long doglike or bearlike toungue. The bad guy calls it with a whistle. Cats don’t come when you call them with a whistle. Dogs do, and I once saw a cartoon dancing bear in a Disney movie that was trained and responded to a whistle. The beast is a cartoon beast, so there’s some logical consistency here. The only thing that works against me is one scene where the bad guy pets the beast with his bad hand. In that scene the beast slinks catlike up to its master. Also, in that scene the beast has changed size. In the fight scene when it runs by Fronsac, the beasts shoulders are eye level with a standing Fronsac’s eye. In the scene where it gets petted by the bad guy the beast is small enough that the seated bad guy has to reach down to pet it. Only in this petting scen could it have been a lion. In all the others it clearly could not. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/53 "2002-10-23T09:43:45Z")
You missed so important bits. Go look at it again 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/54 "2002-10-23T09:44:52Z")
There should be a “many” in the first sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/55 "2002-10-23T10:45:47Z")
This is all just a cruel ploy to make him watch a movie he hates over and over isn’t it? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/56 "2002-10-23T13:04:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Dogs do, and I once saw a cartoon dancing bear in a Disney movie that was trained and responded to a whistle. Bwa ha ha ha! Thanks for making me laugh, **Scylla**! Since nothing is going to change your mind (even though I’m right and you’re wrong 🙂 ), I’ll just change the subject. How was the voice acting of the English dubbed version? ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/57 "2002-10-23T13:07:13Z")
> [@](#): > > This is all just a cruel ploy to make him watch a movie he hates over and over isn’t it? What?! I wouldn’t _dream_ of doing something so cruel. BTW, **Scylla** , if you could just check out something for me at the first of the movie, only about fifteen, thirty, forty-five minutes worth–tops–that would be _great_. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/58 "2002-10-23T16:11:23Z")
Probably if I’d gone in with different expectations to the movie – if I’d been expecting a cheesy French take on the B-movie action genre – I would’ve gone to see _Minority Report_ instead. I really wanted to like this movie, but I couldn’t. Too flippin goofy. I think the beast was an owlbear. Failing that, though, it was a lion, no doubt. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/59 "2002-10-23T16:38:13Z")
People People People First off the movie had some sex in it so it can’t be all that bad. The movie stuck me as some sort of French version of the recent Sleepy Hollow movie. (science guy from big city goes to investigate gruesome deaths in small town and finds love and a big conspiracy) BUT There is a reason to be really pissed off at this film and it aint got nuthin to do with what the hell kind of beast that was. There is a good fighting chick and a bad fighting chick. The two meet during the final battle. So now there should be a huge blow out kung-fu, clothes ripped off, fall into mud, chick fight. But is there one? NOOOOOOOOOO!!! Good chick just slits bad chicks throat and its over. They give a set up to a chick fight and then don’t have it?!?!?! MADMEN! BASTARDS!!! AAARRRRRRAAAAHHHH!!! ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/60 "2002-10-23T16:43:51Z")
I liked the movie…I didn’t care to know if the beast was a lion or a bear or whatever… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390.md?page=4)