# Brotherhood of the Wolf (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390 "2002-10-22T15:43:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/61 "2002-10-23T17:00:39Z")
Hell, I loved it. I saw it in the cinema, subtitled, and having gathered that it was a kung-fu, hunting, mystery, romance thriller from the reviews, I was quite prepared to let it do its thing and see if it could drag me along in its wake. Which it did, absolutely. I mean, it’s a kung-fu, hunting, mystery romance thriller. What’s not to like? It took a hell of a long time to get a video release, but when it came out quite recently I hied me to the local rental place and demanded their finest copy. Hurrying home with it clutched in my hot little hand, I could barely contain my glee, and settled down to watch it with pizza and beer. I cannot convey the plummet in my emotional state when the first words were spoken - in English. They’d only gone and given me the dubbed version! I didn’t enjoy it at all - the mental disconnect between the mouth movements and the sounds, the shocking voice acting and above all the bad translation turned the movie from cinematic gold into VHS lead. My French isn’t good by any means, but I did remember the scene where noble savage was telling everybody their spirit animal; the one-armed bad guy is drunk, and starts misbehaving. “Sorry,” he says in French and the subtitles, “have I been gauche?” thus making, as you all know, a bad joke on the loss of his (right) arm. That suggested, to me at any rate, that he was using the fake lost arm as an excuse for weird behaviour, such as training an armour-clad beast to hunt peasants and trying to sleep with his sister. Dubbed, he asked if he’d been impolite, conveying nothing. If that level of attention to detail was typical of the whole dubbing project, it must have crippled the chances of the film carrying its message (such as it is) to the poor saps who didn’t use the subtitle option. And it’s so clearly a lion, with the roaring and the pouncing and so forth, that that’s not even worth arguing about. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/62 "2002-10-23T18:09:56Z")
Wanna know something weirder, **amrussell**? When I switched the DVD to French language/English subtitles, in that particular scene, even though I clearly remember that Jean-Francois said the word gauche and that was the word they used in the subtitles, the DVD version used the English word, probably the same one you heard in the dubbed version. For some odd reason, they actually rewrote the translation. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/63 "2002-10-23T20:28:43Z")
> [@](#): > > How on earth does one masquerade for decades as only having one arm? Where does the other one go? > > Does he bind it up and just walk around with a strange bump on one side, or does he have a detachable arm, or what? In the very good silent horror movie _The Unknown_, Lon Chaney plays a man who’s impersonating that he’s lost **both** arms. Creepy, disturbing, and good fun. Plus, it takes place in a circus, though I can’t recall if there was a giant wicker-wearing LionBear (probably not). ---
**Author:** ![Lisa\_Ann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lisa\_Ann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa_Ann)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/64 "2002-10-24T17:58:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*It ain’t a lion or a lioness. > > I watched the deleted scenes, and some of the fight scenes with the cgi beast, and finally the scene where Fronsac shot it after petting it. > > In the deleted scene where they show the pawprint, it is literally huge. The print is roughly a foot across, The three pads all have long wicked claws extending from them. Everybody knows cats have retractable claws and bears don’t. This pawprint matches the profile of a bear both because of the size and the claws, but not a cat. > > The beast is easily the size of a horse except thicker. Even with the wicker armor you’re talking about a creature on it’s own that has to be 800 pounds or more. There ain’t no cats that big. > > In dubbed english Fronsac estimates the size of the beast based on the bite profile. I memorized the figure he gave, but now I forgot what it was. Too big for a cat though. > > In the Beast’s death scene it’s hair is coarse and black just like I said. > > It’s bellow is distinctly uncatlike. It bellows quite a bit. It could be a boar or a bear or something else, but it’s clearly no cat. > > The bad guy did get his arm ripped off by a lion, but in the death scene they don’t say that he brought back the cubs of the beast that ripped off his arm, but simply the cubs of a beast he found in Africa. > It has a very long snout, and doglike jaws that have that weird wrinkled shit that dogs have, and a very long doglike or bearlike toungue. > > The bad guy calls it with a whistle. Cats don’t come when you call them with a whistle. Dogs do, and I once saw a cartoon dancing bear in a Disney movie that was trained and responded to a whistle. The beast is a cartoon beast, so there’s some logical consistency here. > > _The only thing that works against me is one scene where the bad guy pets the beast with his bad hand. In that scene the beast slinks catlike up to its master. Also, in that scene the beast has changed size._ > > In the fight scene when it runs by Fronsac, the beasts shoulders are eye level with a standing Fronsac’s eye. In the scene where it gets petted by the bad guy the beast is small enough that the seated bad guy has to reach down to pet it. Only in this petting scen could it have been a lion. In all the others it clearly could not. \*\* ITALICS ON MY PART FOR EMPHASIS. By dog, I’ve got it! It was a giant Chow Chow. I know this becuase my Chow if very cat-like. He has paws similar to a cat, he washes himself like a cat (I kid you not) and he leaps up onto the bed at night in a very stealthy manner and curls up in a little ball JUST LIKE A CAT! When Bear, my Chow’s name, wants to sneak back outside after being reprimanded for barking, he slinks. That is the only way to describe it. Therefore, the creature in the film must have been a lost prehistoric ancestor of the modern Chow, which is a very ancient beasty itself! Yay! ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/65 "2002-10-24T19:51:43Z")
> [@](#): > > **[Atlas Bear](http://www.geocities.com/thylacine11/AtlasBear.html)** > [@](#): > > **[Barbary Lion](http://www.gotpetsonline.com/photo-gallery/Mainpage/Exotics/Barbary-Lion/Barbary-Lion1.shtml)** Atlas Bear and Barbary Lyon (sp), they’re cops. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/66 "2002-10-24T20:05:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeadlyAccurate \* > \*\*Wanna know something weirder, **amrussell**? When I switched the DVD to French language/English subtitles, in that particular scene, even though I clearly remember that Jean-Francois said the word gauche and that was the word they used in the subtitles, the DVD version used the English word, probably the same one you heard in the dubbed version. For some odd reason, they actually rewrote the translation. \*\* They did that in a couple other places, as well. In the scene where Mani is telling folks their animal spirits, one fellow’s he (originally) said was a boar. The re-written subtitles say “bull”, rendering Mani’s gesture in that scene (mimicking tusks, not horns), and the following line about pigs, somewhat confusing. In another place, the question _Comment?_ was translated as “Come on!”. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/67 "2002-10-24T20:44:52Z")
Were there any wolves? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/68 "2002-10-24T20:56:30Z")
Nobody knows for sure. At least that’s the vibe I’m picking up. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/69 "2002-10-24T21:37:44Z")
No, there were plenty of wolves in the movie. Mani’s wolf spirit is a beautiful white wolf you see several times in the movie. There’s also a wolf hunt (the nobles were convinced it was a wolf causing all the mayhem) and hundreds of wolves were killed. The leaders of the Brotherhood were encouraging the belief that a wolf was causing all the mischief. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/70 "2002-10-24T21:49:25Z")
And the Brotherhood, of course, referred to themselves as “Wolves of God” (thus the title). ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/71 "2002-10-25T09:37:08Z")
And the wolves were the ones that led the beast to a trap (didn’t work, though). ---
**Author:** ![Starbury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Starbury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starbury)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/72 "2002-10-25T14:18:58Z")
Just for the record, most French historians think that the animal was a striped Hyena. Since this movie was (very loosely) based on a historical incident, I’d say that the animal in the movie was also a hyena. I liked the movie, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Starbury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Starbury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starbury)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/73 "2002-10-25T14:22:37Z")
Did I say _striped_? I meant **spotted** hyena. From [this page](http://sailfish.exis.net/~spook/hyenatxt.html), it is described as a “vaguely bearlike large hyena.” ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/74 "2002-10-25T19:10:10Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Scylla_ > In the deleted scene where they show the pawprint, it is literally huge. The print is roughly a foot across, The three pads all have long wicked claws extending from them. Everybody knows cats have retractable claws and bears don’t. This pawprint matches the profile of a bear both because of the size and the claws, but not a cat. Buzz, wrong again. Cute little kitten-cats have retractable claws, its true, as do your smaller feral cats (lynx, ocelots, bobcats, that sort of thing). However, your big game cats, tigers and lions specifically, cannot retract their claws. (Not sure about panthers, leopards, and the like.) So large pawprints complete with long wicked claws could still belong to a lion. Back to your regularly-scheduled rant. Snicks ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/75 "2002-10-25T20:31:04Z")
> [@](#): > > However, your big game cats, tigers and lions specifically, cannot retract their claws. According to [Wildlife Waystation](http://www.waystation.org/html/alion.html), lions can retract their claws. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/76 "2002-10-26T00:49:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snickers \* > **Buzz, wrong again. Cute little kitten-cats have retractable claws, its true, as do your smaller feral cats (lynx, ocelots, bobcats, that sort of thing). However, your big game cats, tigers and lions specifically, cannot retract their claws. (Not sure about panthers, leopards, and the like.)** Buzz, wrong…er, now. Among the big cats, only the cheetah lacks the ability to retract its claws. And even in that case, they are slightly retractable. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/77 "2002-10-26T02:57:55Z")
Ha! HA! No retractable claws thus proves it is a bear. You all owe a big apology. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390/78 "2002-10-26T04:00:10Z")
How many bears have you seen with steel fangs? Huh? _Huh_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-spoilers/133390.md?page=3)