# Brown, Green, Black, White as surnames **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 19, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435 "2008-11-19T11:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/21 "2008-11-19T14:50:10Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > There’s a family in my town named Blue. I couldn’t tell you their ancestry, tho. There’s actually an actor named David Blue (currently working on “Ugly Betty” as Marc St. James’s boyfriend Cliff), but with actors you never know if it’s the surname they were born with or a SAG-directed rename. ---
**Author:** ![Aghris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecccb3/32.png) [@Aghris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aghris)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/22 "2008-11-19T14:52:47Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > There’s actually an actor named David Blue (currently working on “Ugly Betty” as Marc St. James’s boyfriend Cliff), but with actors you never know if it’s the surname they were born with or a SAG-directed rename. Let’s also not forget Randy Blue, of internet porn fame. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/23 "2008-11-19T14:54:58Z")
> [@Aghris](#): > > Let’s also not forget Randy Blue, of internet porn fame. How could I have forgotten him!? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/24 "2008-11-19T15:44:30Z")
Could be anything- maybe Mr. Green painted his house green. I lived in Cameroon during a period when many people did not have last names, but were beginning to live in towns big enough where they needed to be distinguished from the other "Amadou"s in town. It was absolutely fascinating to see the process where last names take place. Some people picked up patronyms simply by becoming “Bouba’s Amadou” (Amadou Bouba) as opposed to “Bakari’s Amadou” (Amadou Bakari). Others picked up names from their job (Souley Moto was the local motorcycle taxi man), their physical characteristics (Robert Manga meant “Big Robert”) or other random things. I remember getting a big worried when people’s names were based on their sometimes pretty crappy jobs. One guy introduced himself as “Souley Woila Voyage.” Woila Voyage was the name of a really pretty cut rate bus company where they guy worked- it’d be the equivalent of someone becoming"Sam Greyhound". Who knows how many generations may end up stuck with the name of the place where a guy worked briefly as a baggage handler? Anyway, intresting stuff. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/25 "2008-11-19T15:48:24Z")
Obligatory _Reservoir Dogs_ reference. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/26 "2008-11-19T15:48:42Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > There’s actually an actor named David Blue (currently working on “Ugly Betty” as Marc St. James’s boyfriend Cliff), but with actors you never know if it’s the surname they were born with or a SAG-directed rename. Blue isn’t a common surname, but not unheard of either. Vida Blue was an MLB pitcher for a while, and Dan Blue was speaker of the NC house a while back. His daughter, Kanika Blue, went to my high school and sometimes drove a car with the license plate “1”, which was pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/27 "2008-11-19T16:32:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Also, “Green” or “Greene” can be a locality surname, denoting someone who lived on or near the village green or on “the green hill” In a similar vein, I suppose ‘Brown’ could derive from ‘Bourn(e)’? And more speculation, Black, White and Grey could perhaps also stem from descriptions of people’s personalities or other characteristics. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/28 "2008-11-19T17:00:21Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Not linguistically maybe, but how how about “Gold”? I don’t have a cite, but I read somewhere that during the 1800’s Jews living in Germany were legally required to change there name to some common object. Thus the many Golds and Steins (stone) ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/29 "2008-11-19T17:02:43Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I don’t have a cite, but I read somewhere that during the 1800’s Jews living in Germany were legally required to change there name to some common object. Thus the many Golds and Steins (stone) And don’t forget Silverman And I suppose Pearlman would be up there, too. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/30 "2008-11-19T17:12:37Z")
Isn’t the whole thing about people changing their names at Ellis Island a myth (unless you use Ellis Island as a metaphor for the whole process of immigrating)? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/31 "2008-11-19T17:19:55Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > There’s probably a lot of reasons, but one is that at Ellis Island immigrants often took, or were given, names that were considered to be common, or chose new names on a whim. It was probably common for color names to be selected based on the fact that they were usually ethnically neutral, easy to say and spell and would not draw unnecessary attention. Not to mention they’d just endured a long rough sea crossing, so no wonder there’s lots of Greens 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/32 "2008-11-19T17:26:32Z")
Ellis Island name changes are not myth. In 1917 my great grandfather was told by another passenger that he wouldn’t be able to get a job in America with a name like Mikovitch. He didn’t know any American names … saw a box of lettuce on the dock labeled McCobin Produce … and chose McCobin as the new American family name. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/33 "2008-11-19T17:29:46Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Not to mention they’d just endured a long rough sea crossing, so no wonder there’s lots of Greens 😛 I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/34 "2008-11-19T17:31:38Z")
I checked my local phone book for less common color names. I did find some people named Blue, Redd, Orange, Pink, and Violette, but no more than two or three of each. There were no Yellows but there were a few people named Yellowdy. This is out of over 300 pages of telephone listings. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/35 "2008-11-19T17:34:30Z")
To those not in the U.S.: do names involving the words _gold_ or _silver_ have the same ethnic connotation as they do here? In America they’re often considered stereotypically Jewish names. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/36 "2008-11-19T17:41:26Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Not linguistically maybe, but how how about “Gold”? Lemon is not unknown. At the Doctors surgery where I used to go there were Drs White, Black and Green, then they were joined by a Dr Lavender and the name board began to look silly. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/37 "2008-11-19T17:43:45Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Isn’t the whole thing about people changing their names at Ellis Island a myth (unless you use Ellis Island as a metaphor for the whole process of immigrating)? At least in my family, immigrating to the US from Finland, 4 brothers had to decide on a last name. They had been using the —son form, changing with each generation, and that wasn’t going to work as well. So they all decided on a name they liked and tah dah, that’s the one we’ve all used for the last 120 years. Yep, they came through Ellis Island. So not a total myth. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/38 "2008-11-19T17:46:46Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > As for the racial component it’s true that Blacks tend to have more generic names than Whites simply because most blacks a descendants of freed slaves and those slaves took names by choice as well. Also, many freed slaves took the surnames of their former owners. So names that were common among whites in the antebellum South would also have some popularity among blacks who are descended from slaves. FWIW–my last name derives from the German “gelb,” meaning yellow. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/39 "2008-11-19T17:49:50Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > At least in my family, immigrating to the US from Finland, 4 brothers had to decide on a last name. They had been using the —son form, changing with each generation, and that wasn’t going to work as well. So they all decided on a name they liked and tah dah, that’s the one we’ve all used for the last 120 years. > > Yep, they came through Ellis Island. So not a total myth. Sure, my ancestors also came through Ellis Island and also changed their names. But I don’t think the change occurred _at Ellis Island_–it was just part of the process of establishing oneself in a new country. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435/40 "2008-11-19T18:06:45Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > English-speaking countries have a whole bunch of colors as surnames. To a Finn like me, this is peculiar - we have no color-names, and the thought of such (in Finnish) brings up mental images of elves or children’s book characters at best. > > Can anyone shed some light on the origins of these English names? Also, I’ve noticed a number of African American people with the surname White (musicians like Verdine White, Barry White etc.). Is this a pure coincidence or have some African Americans in the distant past consciously adopted the surname White? > > I’m not sure if this sounds clumsily racist or just plain dumb but that is certainly not my intention. Black, Brown White and Green are all associated with the clans of Scotland. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brown-green-black-white-as-surnames/473435.md?page=3)