# Bruce Levenson Email **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825 "2014-09-08T02:51:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/1 "2014-09-08T02:51:31Z")
> **[Atlanta Hawks owner Bruce Levenson to sell team after racially charged e-mail...](https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/07/us/atlanta-hawks-owner-bruce-levenson-racist-email/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)** > > Atlanta Hawks owner Bruce Levenson will sell the team after making racist remarks in an email, he says. Given that this guy exposed his own email to the NBA and subsequently chastised HIMSELF in his public statement and decided to sell his team on his own, this doesn’t really qualify as political correctness gone wild. Having said that, what if he hadn’t decided to punish himself? Is his letter REALLY racist? I didn’t see anything in his letter overtly disparaging to blacks. He only gave his assessment (right or wrong) of certain marketing ideas ( true or false). I mean, is it NEVER ok for a business person to take race into account when trying to market their product/service? If it just so happens that a particular ethnic group is in a better position to buy, wouldn’t one have very poor business sense not to acknowledge that and want to draw them in? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/2 "2014-09-08T03:10:35Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > I didn’t see anything in his letter overtly disparaging to blacks. You’re kidding us, right? Nothing overtly disparaging? No, only minimizing their importance as paying fans of his team’s games in favor of attracting more white people. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/3 "2014-09-08T03:23:42Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You’re kidding us, right? Nothing overtly disparaging? No, only minimizing their importance as paying fans of his team’s games in favor of attracting more white people. Jesus. Is there a specific line you’re referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/4 "2014-09-08T03:56:13Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/07/us/atlanta-hawks-owner-bruce-levenson-racist-email/index.html?hpt=hp\_t2](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/07/us/atlanta-hawks-owner-bruce-levenson-racist-email/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) > > Given that this guy exposed his own email to the NBA and subsequently chastised HIMSELF in his public statement and decided to sell his team on his own, this doesn’t really qualify as political correctness gone wild. Donald Sterling got $2B for being a racist. I expect a wave of NBA owners to start accidentally exposing racist emails and phone calls now. The pay is good. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/5 "2014-09-08T06:36:02Z")
What’s the likelihood that he’s just trying to unload the team? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/6 "2014-09-08T07:10:51Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What’s the likelihood that he’s just trying to unload the team? Why would he have to manufacture a scandal to sell his interest in the team? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/7 "2014-09-08T07:16:03Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Is there a specific line you’re referring to? She’d pretty much have to quote the entire email. Did you not actually read it? The entire point of the email is about how horrible it is that his audience is primarily black and how he needs to get more white people. He wants to have fewer black people so it won’t scare away racist white people. That’s pretty much exactly what **Shayna** described. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/8 "2014-09-08T07:39:51Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > She’d pretty much have to quote the entire email. Did you not actually read it? The entire point of the email is about how horrible it is that his audience is primarily black and how he needs to get more white people. He wants to have fewer black people so it won’t scare away racist white people. > > That’s pretty much exactly what **Shayna** described. He just wants to get more revenue in. I don’t think he gives two shits if that money comes from white people or black people. Taking into consideration that white people have more money is not racist. Also understanding that a lot of white people, whom I’m sure think they don’t have a racist bone in their body, don’t want to go downtown because of the perceived “danger” really just translates to those black folks downtown are scary to the urban white folks. That’s not being racist. That’s a business man understanding the market (or realizing, there’s a lot of stupid people out there with cash) and how to make best use of it. If you’re pissed, you should be pissed at the giant gap we have out there with regards to cultural differences. The rampant ignorance. The fear. You _shouldn’t_ be pissed at the guy who pointed out the emperor is wearing no clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/9 "2014-09-08T08:04:37Z")
_Suburban_ white folks, not urban. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/10 "2014-09-08T15:36:15Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > If it just so happens that a particular ethnic group is in a better position to buy, wouldn’t one have very poor business sense not to acknowledge that and want to draw them in? If one is in a highly visible industry in one of America’s largest majority-black cities, one might want to be a bit more careful about how one goes about expressing one’s business ideas. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/11 "2014-09-08T18:08:32Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What’s the likelihood that he’s just trying to unload the team? > [@Shakes](#): > > Why would he have to manufacture a scandal to sell his interest in the team? I dunno. Maybe he felt that if he framed the narrative in such a way that it looked like he was being (or _going_ to be) forced to sell, he could get more for the team. I have no idea how to calculate the value of an NBA franchise. If the Atlanta team have been underperforming, mightn’t they be objectively worth less? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/12 "2014-09-08T19:02:50Z")
I don’t think his intent was to denigrate blacks, even though he doesn’t think he can make any money off them. He’s a businessman who thinks in terms of demographics, and that comes with a cold regard of his customers as objects, not people. He’s more shameless than racist. If he’s using this email as a pretext to sell the team, it doesn’t seem like a good way to get buyers interested, except maybe as a tax writeoff. I somehow don’t think he’s doing it because of a guilty conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/13 "2014-09-08T19:13:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I have no idea how to calculate the value of an NBA franchise. If the Atlanta team have been underperforming, mightn’t they be objectively worth less? The value of a team has very little to do with short-term on-field/court/whatever performance. It’s all about the geographic market and public interest. The The Cowboys and Redskins haven’t won anything in years but are the [most valuable NFL franchises](http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45ikdf/3-dallas-cowboys-2/). The Houston Texans have never won anything but they’re in the top 10 because there is lots of money in Houston. San Antonio wins everything but is only the NBA’s 10th most valuable franchise. The Hawks are one of the league’s [least valuable](http://www.forbes.com/nba-valuations/#page:3_sort:0_direction:asc_search:) (and in fact are losing money right now.) ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/14 "2014-09-08T19:17:20Z")
I find it remarkable that people in this thread are defending this idiot’s attitude when the man himself has acknowledged that he was 100 percent wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/15 "2014-09-08T20:00:13Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I find it remarkable that people in this thread are defending this idiot’s attitude when the man himself has acknowledged that he was 100 percent wrong. Ever told your spouse you were 100% wrong - even though you knew you weren’t - just because you wanted to stop the fighting, repair a damaged relationship and move forward? If he doesn’t admit that he’s wrong, he will only make things worse for himself - regardless of whether he was wrong or not. The CNN article included this quote: > [@CNN](#): > > “I trivialized our fans by making cliched assumptions about their interests (i.e. hip hop vs. country, white vs. black cheerleaders, etc.) and by stereotyping their perceptions of one another (i.e. that white fans might be afraid of our black fans),” he said in his statement. “By focusing on race, I also sent the unintentional and hurtful message that our white fans are more valuable than our black fans.” If you’re making business/marketing decisions, you must necessarily make assumptions about which customers have money to spend, and what will appeal to them. In terms of discretionary spending money, the average white person will have more of it than the average black person; that sort of information is in the news every day, so _that’s not even an assumption_, let alone racist; it’s just a fact. As far as what sorts of music one’s customer base might find appealing, well, stereotypes exist for a reason. If you wanted to open a concert venue that features only rap artists, do you think it would be more successful in Dickinson, ND, or downtown Chicago? If you have a definite opinion about which site would be more successful, then you are making assumptions because of stereotypes - and in this case, you are likely to make a good business decision because of it. Should Levinson really be crucified for pointing out the obvious, i.e. white people have more money than black people, and they have differing tastes in music? > [@Shakes](#): > > You _shouldn’t_ be pissed at the guy who pointed out the emperor is wearing no clothes. This. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/16 "2014-09-08T20:40:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What’s the likelihood that he’s just trying to unload the team? High. > [@Shakes](#): > > Why would he have to manufacture a scandal to sell his interest in the team? It’s the Atlanta Hawks. Without a juicy scandal to bring some attention they wouldn’t even sell on Craigslist. Look, the guy was talking about demographics, which is tough to do without specifically referencing a particular subset of a population. OTOH, the quotes below are way out of line: > [@](#): > > I have told them I want some white cheerleaders… > > He continued, “i have also balked when every fan picked out of crowd to shoot shots in some time out contest is black. I have even bitched that the kiss cam is too black.” Honestly, as a white Atlanta native, I was a bit peeved that he suggested I didn’t attend Hawks games because of all the black people there. I guess I’ll quit coming in to work as well, since my office of 1,000 people is about 75% black. I don’t attend for 2 reasons: 1. I don’t care much for pro basketball (I attend an ocasional college or high school game) 2. The product is lackluster, at best. Address those issues - convince me the game is worth watching in person and field a winning team and the rest will take care of itself. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/17 "2014-09-08T21:35:40Z")
I’m on record as saying that “racist” is the wrong term for Levenson’s attitudes, but I wanted to take the opportunity of a Pit thread to point out that \*\*Shodan \*\*is, in fact, [being a disgusting racist](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17712880#post17712880) in the Game Room thread on this subject. Shocker, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/18 "2014-09-08T22:04:32Z")
My first reaction, on learning that the Hawks have lots of black customers, is to wonder what they’re doing _right_. The Chicago teams–especially the White Sox, who suffer from chronically poor attendance–have wondered for decades how to get more black people to come to their games, generally without success. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/19 "2014-09-08T22:24:26Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You’re kidding us, right? Nothing overtly disparaging? No, only minimizing their importance as paying fans of his team’s games in favor of attracting more white people. Jesus. Is it possible that rather than being disparaging, he was just being stupid? That he was looking at his customer base, trying to figure out what he could do to broaden it, and came to some stupid conclusions? I can see how the email can be read as “We have too many black fans”. But I can also see how it can be read as “We don’t have enough white fans”. It would be interesting to see a similar email, if one exists, about the Thrashers. Did he think about attracting black fans for them? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825/20 "2014-09-08T22:31:21Z")
Recognizing that there are differences between the demographics who you want to attract is not necessarily racist. But he took what could have been acceptable goals – we want customers with more income, more families, and a place where people feel safe – and turned it into “how can we have fewer blacks at our game.” He had a lot of options for meeting those goals without stooping to getting rid of the blacks. It is difficult to understand people who say this isn’t racist. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bruce-levenson-email/697825.md?page=2)