# Brushing up on my Shakespeare **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375 "2016-08-20T03:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/21 "2016-08-20T13:04:45Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Similarly if you can track down the documentary about Julie Taymor making the stage play version of The Tempest (not her 2010 film which was sort of meh) you get a lot of insite into the play as well as the thought process behind producing it. I’ll see if I can track down a link. [This is i](https://youtu.be/p0tDiWWwcxI)t. It’s only a half hour long but really good. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/22 "2016-08-20T13:23:36Z")
Oh, and for regular adaptations. I think that[Polanski’s version of MacBeth](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067372/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2)get’s the spirit of the play exactly right. Not everyone loves it, but it’s the only straight adaptation (read: not Throne of Blood) that really gets it. I like the [Julius Cesar](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045943/?ref_=nv_sr_1) that has Brando in it. Not everyone feels the way that I do, but it’s simple and the clean. Gives you a very good feel for the play. I also want to get a non Kurosawa version of King Lear in here because it is absolutely my favorite and there aren’t many good film versions. [I like Peter Brook’s version](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067306/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3). My second favorite play is Henry IV part 1 (part 2 is ok) and there are just \*no \*good film versions. Which is a shame. [Chimes at Midnight](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059012/) is close, but sort of a mess and not really Henry IV. I haven’t seen [The Hollow Crown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollow_Crown_(TV_series)) series, which does Henry IV, so that might be pretty good. They do a version of Richard II also, which no one does and I have been meaning to see, because I haven’t seen any good productions of that play ever. I trust the people who made it, but won’t recommend it without actually having watched it. Proceed with caution. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/23 "2016-08-20T14:10:14Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Has anyone seen _Coriolanus_ with Ralph Fiennes? I think it’s set in Nazi Germany or something. Not Nazi Germany, contemporary Balkans. It’s definitely worth watching, although it plays fast and loose with the text. The recent BBC version of _King Lear_ with Ian McKellen is excellent, as is the David Tennant _Hamlet_ that **Stranger on a Train** mentioned. Also, the Globe and the RSC have been pretty good about making many of their recent productions available on DVD / streaming video; it’s obviously not the same as watching the show in the theater, but it captures some of the interplay with the audience, and I think the comedies, in particular, just _work_ so much better on stage that it’s worth tracking them down. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/24 "2016-08-20T15:38:57Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Titus, also directed by Julie Taymor, is gorgeous (and gruesome)…and it’s got a hell of a cast - Anthony Hopkins, Jessica Lange, Alan Cumming… I second this recommendation. The cast is excellent and so is everything else. It is can be very difficult to watch in some places, but that just makes the revenge all the sweeter. I also love the way Harry Lennix’s Aaron delivered the “Villain, I have done thy mother” line. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/25 "2016-08-20T17:08:10Z")
I second the recommendation of the 1953 _Julius Caesar_. John Gielgud and James Mason are amazing (of course) and it’s great fun to see American movie stars take on the other roles. Rascally Louis Calhern as Caesar! Dumpy ol’ Edmund O’Brien as Casca! Alan Napier – Batman’s Butler! – as Cicero! ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/26 "2016-08-20T17:13:02Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > The 2010 Tempest (which cast Helen Mirren as Prosper[del]o[/del]a) is very good, or at least as good as the frankly fairly meandering play allows. It’s gorgeous, and the cast deliver solid performances. > > Titus, also directed by Julie Taymor, is gorgeous (and gruesome)…and it’s got a hell of a cast - Anthony Hopkins, Jessica Lange, Alan Cumming… See, I can’t really recommend her film versions of the plays Titus is okay I guess. It’s not a very good play to start with, but I really think her film of the Tempest is disjointed. My problem with Taymor is, while I think she is a genius designer she is a mediocre story teller. I find her movies meandering and overly in love with her own style. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/27 "2016-08-20T17:22:36Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I second the recommendation of the 1953 _Julius Caesar_. John Gielgud and James Mason are amazing (of course) and it’s great fun to see American movie stars take on the other roles. Rascally Louis Calhern as Caesar! Dumpy ol’ Edmund O’Brien as Casca! Alan Napier – Batman’s Butler! – as Cicero! Napier was a popular character actor well before he took up the mantle of Alfred. As for the movie, Brando takes me out of it every time. Not a big fan. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/28 "2016-08-20T17:54:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Napier was a popular character actor well before he took up the mantle of Alfred. As for the movie, Brando takes me out of it every time. Not a big fan. Yeah, but I double-dog dare anyone to catch him in a movie and not go “Alfred!!!” It’s like the _William Tell Overture_ and the Lone Ranger. Brando IS a pretty terrible Marc Antony. But you’re too busy pointing and laughing at his miniskirt to really notice. ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/29 "2016-08-20T18:01:22Z")
I highly recommend the Patrick Stewart/Kate Fleetwood performance of [Macbeth](http://www.thirteen.org/programs/great-performances/macbeth/). It’s a chiller. The only problem I had: accepting Jean-Luc Picard as a multiple murderer. If you can get past that, it’s wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/30 "2016-08-20T18:06:53Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Joss Sheldon’s version of “Much Ado…” with a lot of his Buffyverse actors rivals Branagh’s This version is even more impressive considering that it’s basically a bunch of rich people screwing around and going, “hey gang, let’s make a movie!” ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/31 "2016-08-20T18:34:07Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Zeffirelli’s _ **Romeo and Juliet** _ is about as good as it gets. Baz Lurhmann’s _Romeo + Juliet_, set in modern-day Florida, is pretty good, though some of the speeches are moved around. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/32 "2016-08-20T18:39:03Z")
I third the recommendation of Titus. It’s bloody and frightening, and excellent. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/33 "2016-08-20T20:26:02Z")
Making a list… and making popcorn… ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/34 "2016-08-20T20:31:13Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yeah, but I double-dog dare anyone to catch him in a movie and not go “Alfred!!!” It’s like the _William Tell Overture_ and the Lone Ranger. Or Carroll O’Connor in _ **Cleopatra** _: _“Hey! It’s Archie Bunker!”_🆒 ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/35 "2016-08-20T20:39:53Z")
Side bar question: are these modern performances that were shown on the BBC or PBS available on any of the popular streaming services? I’m noticing several recommended that were made after 2006 that I never saw. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/36 "2016-08-20T20:49:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > This version is even more impressive considering that it’s basically a bunch of rich people screwing around and going, “hey gang, let’s make a movie!” True. They did it in a week and a half, and didn’t tell anyone outside about it until shooting was done. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/37 "2016-08-20T21:03:35Z")
The Russian version of _ **Hamlet** _ was translated by Boris Pasternak. The film version (1964) was directed by Grigory Kozintsev and has a score by Dmitri Shostakovich. The actor who plays Hamlet, Innokenty Smoktunovsky, is brilliant in the role. Olivier loved his peformance. Incidentally, Smotunkovsky’s other roles included Porfiry Petrovitch, the detective in Dostoyevskii’s _ **Crime and Punishment** _ (in which he was also brilliant), and he starred in a very popular Soviet comedy _ **Watch Out for Automobiles!** _ where he played a car thief who had the title role in an amateur production of _ **Hamlet** _. You should be able to find subtitled videos of all of the above. **EDIT:** Come to think of it, Pasternak translated _ **Romeo and Juliet** _ into Russian as well. I’ve seen it, and its brilliant too. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/38 "2016-08-20T21:18:57Z")
Has anyone seen John Cleese in the BBC production of _ **Taming of the Shrew** _ (1980)? Browsing the Wiki page for the play on film, I see that there was also a 1929 version with Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks, along with 1953’s _ **Kiss Me, Kate** _ (Cole Porter’s adaptation), _et cetera,_ _et cetera_. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/39 "2016-08-20T21:26:15Z")
Laurence Olivier did films of _Henry V_, _Richard III_, and _Othello_. _Henry V_ was shot on a shoestring budget in the middle of World War II. The background scenery is often matte paintings (sometimes even cloth stage backdrops), but with a little “willing suspension of disbelief”, it works pretty well. Branagh is better at the intimate, personal moments, but Olivier is better at the grand speeches. Olivier’s _Richard III_ is awesomely wicked. _Othello_: The one with Laurence Fishburn as Othello and Kenneth Branagh as Iago is not bad. The one with Orson Wells is not bad. I have not yet seen Laurence Olivier’s version, but I intend to. _Julius Caesar_ 1953 James Mason as Brutus, Marlon Brando as Antony. I liked it. 1970 Jason Robards as Brutus, Charlton Heston as Antony. Not as good as the 1953 version, but I liked it. _Twelfth Night_ > [@](#): > > from Wikipedia > The 1996 film adapted and directed by Trevor Nunn and set in the 19th century, stars Imogen Stubbs as Viola, Helena Bonham Carter as Olivia and Toby Stephens as Duke Orsino. The film also features Mel Smith as Sir Toby, Richard E. Grant as Sir Andrew, Ben Kingsley as Feste, Imelda Staunton as Maria and Nigel Hawthorne as Malvolio. Much of the comic material was downplayed into straightforward drama, and the film received some criticism for this.[34] I liked it. _A Midsummer Night’s Dream_: > [@](#): > > from Wikipedia > A 1935 film version was directed by Max Reinhardt and William Dieterle. The cast included James Cagney as Bottom, Mickey Rooney as Puck, Olivia de Havilland as Hermia, Joe E. Brown as Francis Flute, Dick Powell as Lysander and Victor Jory as Oberon.[46] Old-fashioned acting styles may not appeal to modern viewers, but I enjoyed it. It is in black-and-white, but it is still visually spectacular. Watch it on the biggest screen you can. > [@](#): > > from Wikipedia > A 1968 film version was directed by Peter Hall. The cast included Paul Rogers as Bottom, Ian Holm as Puck, Diana Rigg as Helena, Helen Mirren as Hermia, Ian Richardson as Oberon, Judi Dench as Titania, and Sebastian Shaw as Quince. This film stars the Royal Shakespeare Company, and is directed by Peter Hall. Very low budget, but not bad. Judi Dench’s costume consisted of green paint and a few strategically placed fig leaves, which prompted **Evil Captor** to start a thread titled “Nice rack, M!” > [@](#): > > from Wikipedia > A 1999 film version was written and directed by Michael Hoffman. The cast includes Kevin Kline as Bottom, Rupert Everett as Oberon, Michelle Pfeiffer as Titania, Stanley Tucci as Puck, Sophie Marceau as Hippolyta, Christian Bale as Demetrius, Dominic West as Lysander, and Calista Flockhart as Helena. This adaptation relocates the play’s action from Athens to a fictional “Monte Athena”, located in Tuscany, Italy, although all textual mentions of Athens are retained I was not that fond of Pfeiffer and Kline, but the rest of the cast is superb. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375/40 "2016-08-20T21:46:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Baz Lurhmann’s _Romeo + Juliet_, set in modern-day Florida, is pretty good, though some of the speeches are moved around. The film was shot in Mexico–Mexico City & Veracruz. Signs were in English, but it was definitely set in “Fair Verona” with a few scenes shot out of town. A fantasy place, like Elizabethan England’s Romantic Italy. I saw it during a Los Angeles visit–just after release. And remember a scene near the end, where Romeo fights Paris at Juliet’s tomb & kills him. This has disappeared from the film–but Shakespeare wrote it. Perhaps early audience surveys indicated dismay that Leonardo killed cutie Paul Rudd? (Who is still a cutie, by the way.) Yes, the brash Australian may have made some edits (doesn’t almost every production of Shakespeare?). Better than Julian Fellowes’ version, shot in Verona in lovely period style. But totally [re-written by Lord Fellowes](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/movies/romeo-juliet-adapted-by-julian-fellowes.html?_r=0): > [@](#): > > Why change the text? Speaking with the BBC, Mr. Fellowes (“Downton Abbey”) has waved away criticisms of his alterations because “to see the original in its absolutely unchanged form, you require a kind of Shakespearean scholarship and you need to understand the language and analyze it and so on.” With tongue presumably in cheek or perhaps just a foot deep in mouth, he added that he could do this kind of heavy interpretive lifting “because I had a very expensive education — I went to Cambridge.” Recognizing that not everyone enjoys such advantages, he said, “There are plenty of perfectly intelligent people out there who have not been trained in Shakespeare’s language choices.” Neither i nor that crowd in LA have been to Cambridge. But they were raptly silent throughout the film & applauded wildly at the end. I think\* they\* got it… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brushing-up-on-my-shakespeare/763375.md?page=3)