# Brutal rape and murder in South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428 "2012-01-13T20:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/1 "2012-01-13T20:34:20Z")
I just read the most disturbing [news story](http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Kotze-explains-brutal-attack-to-police-20120113). My friends are calling for the death penalty for Kotze but I’m confused as to why the men he held at gunpoint and forced to rape his ex-wife are being arrested. What would you do if someone pointed a gun at you and told you to rape someone? Another question - how do you get an erection when you have a gun pointed at your head? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/2 "2012-01-13T20:47:27Z")
Talk about performance anxiety! ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/3 "2012-01-13T20:56:33Z")
Ok reading through other news stories I came across this little snippet [here](http://www.eyewitnessnews.co.za/Story.aspx?Id=80710). > [@](#): > > The statement implicates all four men and dismissed the theory that Kotze forced the workers to commit the crime. > “They are all willing participants.” I guess that explains why they are being arrested. At the same time, my original questions still stand. What would you do if someone pointed a gun at your head and told you to rape someone and would it even be physically possible to get an erection in that situation? ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/4 "2012-01-13T21:48:21Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > but I’m confused as to why the men he held at gunpoint and forced to rape his ex-wife are being arrested. Apart from the statement which you’ve mentioned, necessity/duress is a defence to be raised at trial, and the prosecutor may feel it’s appropriate to let the court decide whether their actions were reasonable in light of the degree of duress they were in. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/5 "2012-01-14T02:08:50Z")
At common law, necessity and duress are not defenses to murder (although I can’t tell from the news reports if the “accomplices” helped kill her or just raped her). See Regina v. Dudley and Stephens. South Africa has a mixed common/civil law system, though. ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/6 "2012-01-14T06:29:40Z")
She was not killed, just raped and tortured. It was her son that was murdered (and from what I can tell, by Kotze alone). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/7 "2012-01-14T06:31:32Z")
I’ve no idea what point is supposed to be debated, but as the thread appears to be seeking opinions, I am sending it to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/8 "2012-01-14T12:10:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > At common law, necessity and duress are not defenses to murder (although I can’t tell from the news reports if the “accomplices” helped kill her or just raped her). See Regina v. Dudley and Stephens. South Africa has a mixed common/civil law system, though. As far as I can tell from the news reports (of which there is a large collection [here](http://www.news24.com/Tags/People/johan_kotze)), they were only involved in the rape. She wasn’t murdered, her son was murdered, allegedly by Kotzé alone. That being said, compulsion can, under sufficiently extreme circumstances, act as a complete defence to murder in South African law. See _S v Goliath_ 1972 (3) SA 1 (A). (South African criminal law is Roman-Dutch altered by much English influence. The law of criminal procedure and evidence is entirely English.) ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/9 "2012-01-14T12:27:54Z")
This story illustrates human depravity, gets right to it with no equivocation. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/10 "2012-01-15T18:19:17Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > I guess that explains why they are being arrested. At the same time, my original questions still stand. What would you do if someone pointed a gun at your head and told you to rape someone and would it even be physically possible to get an erection in that situation? Well, there is the nauseating fact that during the Rape of Nanking men were forced to rape their wives and daughters. One has to assume it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![ecoaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@ecoaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ecoaster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutal-rape-and-murder-in-south-africa/609428/11 "2012-01-15T18:46:44Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Well, there is the nauseating fact that during the Rape of Nanking men were forced to rape their wives and daughters. One has to assume it’s possible. There was a general reference of forced familial rape in Iris Chang’s _The Rape of Nanking_ but she also notes that some men refused to rape family members so it is unclear to what extent it actually occurred (4 or 5 times or 500 hundred?). Also note that rape can be a general term for forced penetration, so presumably some (many?) accounts of forced rape did not involve penetration with a penis…