# Brutalist architecture. What were they thinking? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303 "2012-11-08T00:13:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/101 "2012-11-09T10:11:06Z")
It doesn’t have to be glass or steel. Simple marble or limestone cladding can be affixed to a concrete exterior, making it ten times more visually appealing while preserving the basic shape. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/102 "2012-11-09T11:07:57Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > Hah! > > Early Brutalists, along with Corbusier, created “streets in the sky” – interior or exterior corridors for housing that would mimic a street condition, complete with all of its hustle and bustle, sometimes with shops, but all within the context of mass housing. _ **Good intentions – obviously not successful though.** _ (Emphasis mine) And we all know what the road to Hell is paved with… ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/103 "2012-11-09T11:18:25Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > (Emphasis mine) > > And we all know what the road to Hell is paved with… Concrete! **CONCRETE EVERYWHERE!** ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/104 "2012-11-09T11:24:54Z")
It is cheap. Has a low maintenance finish. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/105 "2012-11-09T13:58:18Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > It is cheap. Has a low maintenance finish. …and looks it, which is the problem. Is there anything sadder and more depressing than the look of cast concrete in the rain? ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/106 "2012-11-09T14:09:53Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > …and looks it, which is the problem. > > Is there anything sadder and more depressing than the look of cast concrete in the rain? The designers who defended Faner Hall claimed it was “honest.” To them honest equals no façade. Wasn’t the home in The Ghost Writer built in this style? I thought that was a rare example of the design working. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/107 "2012-11-09T14:39:53Z")
**I Made French Toast For You** , your descriptions are really selling it to me! I’m serious, the way you write about Brutalist architecture makes it sound great, but then I see the pictures again and…oh ☹ that’s what it actually looks like. I think that’s really common in architecture. It’s all great ideas, but nobody seems to like the final product and architects don’t really seem to have any idea what people actually like. (Sorry, I don’t mean to be nasty about architects, it’s just an impression I get.) There’s this [square](http://www.google.nl/search?q=schouwburgplein+rotterdam+architecture&hl=en&rlz=1C1CHFA_enGB484GB487&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hxGdUIv0G-fC0QWl64CQDw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1266&bih=679) near where I live that’s in a lot of architecture books. It’s meant to be this fantastic thing. It’s the shittiest square in the history of mankind. When you read about it sounds great: it’s meant to be like a stage (it’s surrounded by a cinema, a theatre and a concert hall), with the skyline as a backdrop. It’s meant to look like it’s floating because of the lighting underneath the edge. I think there’s also something about it looking like water, with the cinema looking like a boat. Sounds good? In actuality, it looks dirty and dated. Obviously, it looks nothing like a stage or like water. Apart from the way water tends to lie on the surface, making it wet and slippery. Different surfaces were used: there’s a smooth slippery bit, then there a slippery wood bit, there a grid with large holes that trip you up and there’s a bit with tiny holes that shred your heels to bits and trip you up. There is literally not a single part of the square you can safely walk on. On top of that it’s dark in the middle. People walk around the edge to get to the other side rather crossing the fast way. There isn’t a single person in this town that doesn’t abhor this square. And this is the great example in all the text books. That’s what I think the problem is: it sounds great. It’s all good intentions. Only it all ends up looking horrendous, it doesn’t work at all. So the idea sounds great: simple lay-out so you can easily find your way. But as someone noted above, they are far too symmetrical and all the corridors look the same, making it more difficult, not less. Concrete that in the pretty drawings was white, light, uplifting, ends up a drab grey with green drips coming down. Ugh. Those concrete sticky-out-bits that surely had some wonderful aesthetic reason look aggressive and nasty. I guess the community idea did work a little though: I’ll give you a hug, **Isamu**! I know it hurts the eyes. _pat pat_ ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/108 "2012-11-09T14:40:32Z")
Brutal: grossly ruthless, unfeeling, cruel, cold-blooded, harsh, severe. All these adjectives set out a relationship with people. Brutalist architecture is grossly ruthless, unfeeling, cruel, cold-blooded, harsh and severe with respect (or more correctly, with no respect) to people, which is why it is vilified by people. That brutalist architects deliberately make brutal environments to which people are unwillingly subjected speaks volumes about the brutes. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/109 "2012-11-09T15:19:16Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > **I Made French Toast For You** , your descriptions are really selling it to me! I agree and am grateful for **IMFTFY’s** scholarship. Even the fact that many of us lost our virginities in Brutalist dorm rooms still can’t redeem our fondness for it’s inescapable _Festung Europa_ quality. But I can still increase my understanding of things I don’t agree with. Now please tell me why my dislike of Postmodernist architecture, esp. Frank Gehry, should be modified. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/110 "2012-11-09T17:50:57Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > They’re even known for being some of the first modern architects to [put](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5tFovhfIHHQ/SiudKvKEGxI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/bFBlVXmmn74/s400/Alison+and+Peter+Smithson,+early+sketch+for+Robin+Hood+Gardens,+1964.JPG) [people](http://archiflux.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/f10-large.jpg) [in their drawings](http://www.mixite.es/wp-content/gallery/golden-lane/identidad_1.jpg) – which was seen as unprofessional and unbecoming. (The people in the drawings were mostly celebrities and other popular figures.) _Taaaaaaaaake…onnnnnnnnn…meeeeeeeeee…_ ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/111 "2012-11-09T17:55:11Z")
Re Gehry: At least the Brutalists designed reasonably weathertight buildings. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/112 "2012-11-09T17:57:57Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > At least the Brutalists designed reasonably weathertight buildings. Not true, in the case of the Boston City Hall-the windows leak rain and cold air, and mold is an ever present problem. The building is extremely energy inefficient, and secretaries have to use plug in heaters to stay warm in winter. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/113 "2012-11-09T18:14:15Z")
Damn sounds almost as much of an epic fail as Gehry’s art gallery which is so riddled with condensation that the art within was degrading . ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/114 "2012-11-09T18:17:03Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > The designers who defended Faner Hall claimed it was “honest.” To them honest equals no façade. > > . “Dammit, buildings are _ugly_ under the facade! Get used to it!” "And people should walk around only in their underwear. And I don’t see the point to “dressing up” the dining room. It should look just like the kitchen. " ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/115 "2012-11-09T19:21:07Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > They’re even known for being some of the first modern architects to . . . put . . . people [in their drawings](http://www.mixite.es/wp-content/gallery/golden-lane/identidad_1.jpg) – which was seen as unprofessional and unbecoming. A woman being steered by a man, a man bumping his head on the ceiling, and some poor son of a bitch laying dead in a hallway after killing himself rather than spending the rest of eternity in a brutalist sketch. (Well, I could be wrong about that dead guy. It could be that he is the architect after the anti-brutalist mob had its way with him.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/116 "2012-11-09T19:27:26Z")
…and then after stepping across the 10 metre high unfinished concrete threshold, residents will then walk directly into the rotating knives. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/117 "2012-11-09T20:23:38Z")
The architects and planners decided \* they would create\* communities. That demonstrates their sheer arrogance in their view of how they had control over populations and its no surprise with such a totalitarian attitude they chose Brutalism to impose in an unwilling populace - who but a totalitarian would replace this [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/6122/6017072037_05464f6e9b_b.jpg "THE LONGROYDS LEEDS 11") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/wandering_grayson/6017072037/) An area that only needed some fairly minor cosmetic work and regeneration and replace it with [http://fields.eca.ac.uk/gis/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/l-37.jpg](http://fields.eca.ac.uk/gis/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/l-37.jpg) No wonder this utterly horrible estate was a hotbed for crime and vandalism, not only that, it was very poorly constructed and completely inappropriate for our weather conditions This was supposed to be a shopping centre [http://www.ataleofonecity.portsmouth.gov.uk/place/the-tricorn-centre/](http://www.ataleofonecity.portsmouth.gov.uk/place/the-tricorn-centre/) Seems the residents of Portsmouth differed with the view of Owen Luder and his acolytes who wanted this excrescence to be preserved - it was again not suited to the UK climate, being geen algea slimy, mouldy damp and discoloured, it was never let out fully either, yet Brutalist lovers who lived everywhere except in the city that housed this monstrosity all thought it was something special - as did the locals, however their definitions of ‘special’ had different meanings This was also intended to be housing in Gosport - near to Portsmouth and was used for military families, it was always a horrible place and not fit to put put a horse in, let alone those whose loved ones were putting their lives on the line for their country. [![](https://humanendeavourphoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/untitled-12.jpg) ](https://humanendeavourphoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/untitled-12.jpg) How about replacing this [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/7011/6653300149_506fafabda_b.jpg "Leeds Boar Lane 1973") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/cliffordstead/6653300149/) with this [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/5186/5614847264_6aa2984f4d_b.jpg "Goodbye Bond Street Centre Bus Station, Leeds") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/cliffordstead/5614847264/) [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/6067/6109933545_41c0925ccf_b.jpg "Goodbye Leeds Bond Street Centre") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/cliffordstead/6109933545/) It becomes really easy to see why ordinary folk absolutely hate these arrogant bastards who shape our streets in such a terrible way. Please note that second picture is actually flattering, the place is dank, dark and miserable and it destroyed the look of one of the finest late Victorian shopping façades in the country, and here is what we lost [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/7008/6549894227_a3fc399ae4_b.jpg "Leeds Boar Lane 1960`s") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/cliffordstead/6549894227/) ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/118 "2012-11-09T20:46:03Z")
Late to the game here, but I offer you the [Crosley Tower](http://www.flickr.com/photos/38167147@N02/3546348607/sizes/z/in/photostream/)on the University of Cincinnati campus. Aside from being, as I recall, the second largest continuously-poured slip-cast concrete structure in the world, its only redeeming value is that it interacts with sunlight in an interesting way. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/119 "2012-11-09T21:12:25Z")
Wow, **casdave** , those are some very sad examples. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303/120 "2012-11-09T21:40:03Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Late to the game here, but I offer you the [Crosley Tower](http://www.flickr.com/photos/38167147@N02/3546348607/sizes/z/in/photostream/)on the University of Cincinnati campus. Aside from being, as I recall, the second largest continuously-poured slip-cast concrete structure in the world, its only redeeming value is that it interacts with sunlight in an interesting way. Man..that abortion looks like a bridge pier..what a stupid design! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brutalist-architecture-what-were-they-thinking/640303.md?page=7)