# BSG 3/4/07: "Maelstrom" \*\*SPOILERS\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 5, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631 "2007-03-05T04:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/41 "2007-03-05T22:19:16Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Starbuck will be back, in some form or other. [/QUOTE] For a guest spot in a flashback ep next season. I’ll have to ff through that as well. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/42 "2007-03-05T22:45:03Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Starbuck will be back, in some form or other. [/QUOTE] I’m just wondering if she’ll be in a white-on-white uniform when she comes back… ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/43 "2007-03-05T22:47:17Z")
The podcast is up. Backstage tidbit: Adama smashing the ship was not scripted. That was actually a very expensive museum piece they’d rented for the show. Apparently it was insured. Really disappointed with the “creative vision” expressed by RDM. Guess I’ll spoiler box it… Sounds like he killed off Starbuck just on a whim. “Wouldn’t it be cool if…” kinda thing. As I see it, he’s admitted to wasting a main character largely for shock value. Blew off the whole 3 years worth of “special destiny” backstory for nothing. The big secret destiny was to commit suicide? Bullshit. He says it marks a change of direction…calling it the first scene of “Act 3” of the series. As a fan, I feel cheated. Somebody got a photoshop as Starbuck in a fonzie jacket on water skis yet? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/44 "2007-03-05T22:51:29Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] Apparently it was insured. [/QUOTE] Insured against actorial smashage? ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/45 "2007-03-05T22:55:22Z")
**levdrakon** beat me to it. I also saw the Cylon raider from Apollo’s perspective just before the asplosion. Additionally, we earlier see the raider coming right at Starbuck (from her POV) and just then something hits her, she gets knocked out, and has a hole in her canopy. If it wasn’t the raider that had these effects, then what did? I say the raider was real. What this means as to the reality of her death and the possibility of a return, I’ll leave to you. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/46 "2007-03-05T23:46:06Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Tigh killed my buzz with his “synchrotron radiation” comment though, I suppose something like that was necessary for the ghost Raider setup. Someone needs to get Tigh a pet parrot for his shoulder, and his character will be complete. [/QUOTE] “WRAAK! Cubits of Eight, WRAAK!” ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/47 "2007-03-05T23:54:57Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Tigh killed my buzz with his “synchrotron radiation” comment though, I suppose something like that was necessary for the ghost Raider setup. Someone needs to get Tigh a pet parrot for his shoulder, and his character will be complete. [QUOTE=MacTech] “WRAAK! Cubits of Eight, WRAAK!” [/QUOTE] “AWWK! Apollo wanna frakker!” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/48 "2007-03-05T23:56:13Z")
She isn’t dead. Her spirit guide (not a coyote who sounds like Johnny Cash, but what the hell) told her she was entering “the space between life and death”. That, if you’ll recall, is how the Xenabot described the place she kept visiting. So look for the Good Witch Kara to tell the humans “You’ve always had the power to go home” at some point. But pleasepleaseplease don’t make her the one of the Final Five that Xenabot recognized in her visionquest. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/49 "2007-03-06T00:06:53Z")
It’s been done. \*“There are only two possibilities. If you hit bottom, then you are dead. If you did not hit bottom, you are still falling and all of this is a dream. Unless … you are in-between.” “Between what?” “Between moments.” \* ``` -- Lorien & Sheridan in **Babylon 5** :"Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?" ``` ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/50 "2007-03-06T00:20:53Z")
asplosions? Exploding snakes? Cubits of eight? Eight arms? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/51 "2007-03-06T00:28:34Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] It’s been done. [/QUOTE] And all of this will happen again, too. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/52 "2007-03-06T01:29:09Z")
For all my back and forth hating Starbuck, then liking her, then hating her, she was interesting. I’m going to miss her. I’m really fearful of the fact that, with one less character, we’re going to see even more Sanctimonious Helo, Boring Tyrol, Dumb Dee, and Whiney Cally. I don’t care about those characters much. And I really don’t want to see this lead to more episodes of Apollo angst. We had that with Black Market, during his fat period, and again with the whole love quadrangle thing. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/53 "2007-03-06T01:51:11Z")
[QUOTE=Sweetums] Overall, not one of my favorite episodes. Then again none of the episodes since they left New Caprica have been very good IMO. ``` Destiny, rough childhood, Starbuck feeling sorry for herself. Then she goes out in a blaze of boring. Look I understand that they want these characters to have flaws to make them interesting, but Starbuck has been nothing but her flaws as of late, nothing to make her even vaguely likable. So this felt like putting her out of her (and our) misery. Yes, I also belive that she will be brought back somehow, but I am begining to wonder if I will be watching then. Too bad, I really liked this show at the begining. ``` [/QUOTE] I haven’t loved any episode since they left New Caprica either. The change to Sunday has sort of ruined the show for me as well. Now that it’s on right after Rome the poor acting is even more apparent. I like most of the main characters but the supporting cast is just terrible and ruins the show for me. They sort of all resemble each other-young, bland and interchangeable. Starting with the oracle that Starbuck visited. Couldn’t they find someone remotely resembling what you’d think of as an oracle instead of that young girl with the scarf on her head talking in a monotone? There’s better acting by a street vendor in Rome than some of the minor characters and it makes the show bland. They really need to get off the ship because watching the show is making me claustrophobic. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/54 "2007-03-06T02:41:37Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Insured against actorial smashage? [/QUOTE] [mst3k]“Oh,we can’t have nice things!”[/] ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/55 "2007-03-06T03:04:52Z")
God, that sucked - and Ron Moore’s comments in the podcast (noted by someone on the previous page) confirm my hunch about the show. They’re just making shit up as they go along. It’s really too bad, because the first two seasons were excellent. Maybe they’ll pull it out of the gutter for season 4. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/56 "2007-03-06T05:24:33Z")
Hey, how come y’all get to trash the show but don’t get yelled at, but when I trash the show I get yelled at? 😛 Anyway, it just occurred to me last week Seelix got promoted to officer and pilot trainee (nugget). Hm. Maybe Starbuck is gone for gooders. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/57 "2007-03-06T05:50:06Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Hey, how come y’all get to trash the show but don’t get yelled at, but when I trash the show I get yelled at? 😛 Anyway, it just occurred to me last week Seelix got promoted to officer and pilot trainee (nugget). Hm. Maybe Starbuck is gone for gooders. [/QUOTE] What scares me is that the name of “Seelix” is only one letter away from another, pathetically bad and annoying Sci-Fi character… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/58 "2007-03-06T07:01:06Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] Ron Moore’s comments in the podcast (noted by someone on the previous page) confirm my hunch about the show. They’re just making shit up as they go along. [/QUOTE] Y’know, I halfway wonder if he isn’t yanking everyone’s chains with those kinds of comments. The “previously” montage for this episode made a pretty good case, IMO, that they’ve had a long-term plan for Starbuck going a fair ways back, whatever RDM might claim. Were I in RDM’s place, I would at least entertain the notion of trying to lower expectations a bit. If he were to come out and say “we’ve been setting this up for the last two seasons, this is just the latest development, what’s coming up is pretty frakking cool,” whether it’s about Starbuck’s destiny or Roslin’s prophecies or the Cylon “plan” or Baby Hera or any of the other balls they’ve been juggling, he’d set us all to drooling anticipation and even more ridiculously obsessive analysis than we’re already doing. And of course, he’d be setting himself up for a backlash when the eventual revelations don’t measure up to everyone’s imagined hypotheses. Better to downplay that stuff, perhaps, and hope to catch us a bit unawares, or even (fingers crossed) blow us completely away. I mean, talk about getting the last laugh. On the other hand, if it’s not a strategic deception, he could be lying out of sheer unadulterated bastardry. Or it’s the truth, and they really are winging it, and all of the above is tissue-thin apologia for a once-great show that’s clearly struggling to maintain its center. I guess we’ll find out, huh? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/59 "2007-03-06T07:40:30Z")
[QUOTE=MacTech] I actually wonder if TPTB are dumbing down the show to “broaden it’s appeal”, when BSG first aired on Scifi, the audience was, lets be honest here, Sci-Fi geeks, used to spaceships, killer robots and zero-gee maneuvers as the show’s popularity has steadily increased, it’s begun to appeal to the more “mundane” induhvidual, so they needed to make the plotlines smaller and easier to understand to not risk driving off potential viewers… to the average viewer I say “FRAK OFF!”, go back to your reality programs, game shows and American Idols, leave the _intelligent_ shows with _good writing_, deeply flawed characters, killer Cyborgs of Doom, and lots of space combat and ‘stuff gettin’ blowed up reeeal good to us sci-fi geeks enough with the Soap Opera In Space, lets get back to bustin’ Toasters! (and the Busty Toasters as well) Heh… Busty Toasters…Band Name! [/QUOTE] Yeah, because the average viewer doesn’t LIKE battles and explosions? I dunno… it’s hard to see how anyone could think that an hourlong episode about labor unions is going to broaden the appeal of a previously cultish show… ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631/60 "2007-03-06T13:20:44Z")
I just want to confirm that the heavy raider was real. On Kara’s last plummet, as Lee’s trying to catch up to her, we see from a POV over his left wing, IIRC. There’s several seconds of a ship in front of him, toward the upper left corner of the screen. Then Starbuck’s Viper pops up down and to the right, and the other ship goes out of sight. But they are both on screen for a moment, leaving no doubt. And yes, she had her hand on the eject handle. Eagle-eye Mr. Cinnamon saw it, I doubted it, and so we watched it frame by frame. I for one don’t necessarily have a problem with mixing science fiction and mysticism. I understand there are purists here, and I can see their point, but personally, if it’s done well, I think it would be fine. However, I expected her death to somehow help the fleet - reveal another signpost to Earth, or at least save them from a Cylon attack. But - nothing. Clearly she’s coming back - I hope they can make it interesting, because her “death” sure wasn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsg-3-4-07-maelstrom-spoilers/394631.md?page=4)