# BSoD and other processes that require unnecessary 'middlemen' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424 "2010-12-08T16:13:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Yarster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/1 "2010-12-08T16:13:52Z")
Having gotten the BSoD on my Windows laptop this morning, I find myself saying “why did this happen?” But in the numerous versions of Windows that have been released, no one has bothered to build in a feature saying “Your copy of Photoshop is somehow corrupt and when open with MS-Word at the same time, is causing the system to crash”. Likewise, every car has a “check engine light”, which is effectively useless because you have to have a code checker diagnostic device to tell you what the problem is. Why the hell isn’t that built directly into the car? That seems like an unnecessary ‘middleman’ step in the process to tell you the problem, just like the BSoD is effectively worthless in telling you the problem with Windows without an IT guy checking your machine out. Anyone have any thoughts about this, or care to mention other processes like this that have unnecessary ‘middlemen’ involved. If the copier at work can tell me hwo to fix it when it jams, why can’t my car do that? ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/2 "2010-12-08T16:20:57Z")
> [@Yarster](#): > > Having gotten the BSoD on my Windows laptop this morning, I find myself saying “why did this happen?” But in the numerous versions of Windows that have been released, no one has bothered to build in a feature saying “Your copy of Photoshop is somehow corrupt and when open with MS-Word at the same time, is causing the system to crash”. This is mostly because the critical failures can be caused by so many things. Kernel panic and such among them. In most cases, the OS just knows that a Very Bad Thing is happening and it kills itself to avoid permanent damage (if possible). There are codes given, in most cases, (0x12345678, or whatever) that you can go online and find some suggestions for. In many cases, though, the info will leave you still wanting more info. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/3 "2010-12-08T16:29:36Z")
The codes that your engine’s computer provides are similar to the ones you get on the BSOD. They don’t tell you what part to replace or what is causing the problem, they’re just symptoms. The BSOD doesn’t tell you how you got into the mess you’re in, it just tells you what particular mess you happen to be in. ---
**Author:** ![Erasmus\_Darwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@Erasmus\_Darwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erasmus_Darwin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/4 "2010-12-09T15:00:09Z")
> [@Yarster](#): > > But in the numerous versions of Windows that have been released, no one has bothered to build in a feature saying “Your copy of Photoshop is somehow corrupt and when open with MS-Word at the same time, is causing the system to crash”. [Windows Error Reporting](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Error_Reporting). It’s been in the last 3 major releases (XP, Vista, 7). It is, however, limited to non-BSOD cases. The problem with a BSOD is that the underlying operating system’s so screwed that it’s past the point of being able to reliably and safely diagnose itself. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/5 "2010-12-09T15:26:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Having gotten the BSoD on my Windows laptop this morning, I find myself saying “why did this happen?” But in the numerous versions of Windows that have been released, no one has bothered to build in a feature saying “Your copy of Photoshop is somehow corrupt and when open with MS-Word at the same time, is causing the system to crash”. they do that, but you really need a full memory dump and a kernel debugger before you can really try to find out what happened. second, Photoshop and Word are user-mode processes, so the chance that those programs will actually cause Windows to BSoD are practically nil. Third, oftentimes Windows will try to identify the faulting process on the BSoD (e.g. “The problem appears to have been caused by emu10k1.sys”) but this is frequently a red herring; all it knows that something in the memory region assigned to that kernel-mode process shit itself. It can’t tell if it was a bug in that file, or a problem with the hardware, or something attached to that process. > [@](#): > > Why the hell isn’t that built directly into the car? 1. on Chryslers, it is- flip the key off-on three times, and the odometer display will show any hard P-codes. 2. a DTC doesn’t tell you what is wrong, it can only tell you that something’s not right. > [@](#): > > Anyone have any thoughts about this, or care to mention other processes like this that have unnecessary ‘middlemen’ involved. my only thought is that people who don’t know how this stuff actually works (like you) should stop assuming that there are “unnecessary” things involved in the process. And maybe you should stop and think that things work the way they do for a reason, and they’re not “wrong” just because you don’t understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/6 "2010-12-09T16:26:50Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > 1. a DTC doesn’t tell you what is wrong, it can only tell you that something’s not right. I’m sorry, but with 50,000+ posts, he certainly has told us what’s right, wrong, and indifferent. Opinionatedly, too! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/7 "2010-12-10T01:53:59Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I’m sorry, but with 50,000+ posts, he certainly has told us what’s right, wrong, and indifferent. Opinionatedly, too! No, that’s DtC. The is not his middle name. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/8 "2010-12-10T01:55:34Z")
I’m lost. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bsod-and-other-processes-that-require-unnecessary-middlemen/563424/9 "2010-12-10T04:11:06Z")
It’s simple: the pellet with the poison’s in the vessel with the pestle, while the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true. Easy! (Diogenes the Cynic has 50K+ posts. He’s very opinionated. He’s also often abbreviated to DtC. BigT was helping out by pointing out that DTC would be Diogenes **T** he Cynic, not Diogenes **t** he Cynic. The small ‘t’ is necessary because ‘The’ isn’t his middle name. Kind of like Smokey the Bear or Super the Man or Mickey the Mouse.)