# BTS-have you heard of them? The ads have officially turned sentient **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 3, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426 "2019-05-03T16:00:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/101 "2019-05-10T16:59:34Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s the perplexing thing to me (a 46 year old man)- these guys not only look young, but they look girly and effeminate. Most Western boy bands just have young, not overly masculine, but not overly feminine looking members, and usually that one older, more masculine looking member. > > I mean, look at BTS [here](https://www.grammy.com/sites/com/files/styles/news_detail_header/public/bts_red-carpet_2019_grammys_1097513762.jpg?itok=6jbGWPbi), versus NSYNC [here](http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/41400000/-NSYNC-1997-2001-nsync-41418124-559-560.jpg). > > Neither band is going to be confused with a biker gang or squad of Marines, but there’s just something more fundamentally girly about BTS that baffles me as to how they could be considered sex symbols or heartthrobs. There was a group from the 60’s who caused a scandal because of their “girly” moptop haircuts that the girls went absolutely wild over. What was their name…something about it _bugs_ me! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/102 "2019-05-10T17:06:47Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This is much like the long-running Japanese girl group [Morning Musume](https://youtube.com/watch?v=02mCdIf9czI), which “retires” members when they turn 20. [Here](https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ivu76DXX2Es) is a sample video, chosen for its interesting choice of setting and cutting-edge special effects. Japan also has AKB48 and its sister groups with well over 100 members in total. Members “graduate” as they gain individual popularity. Three members are currently in the reality survival group Kpop group Iz\*one. [https://kprofiles.com/izone-members-profile/](https://kprofiles.com/izone-members-profile/) ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/103 "2019-05-10T17:30:59Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’ve heard of them and indeed heard them (on television). They’re just the latest in a long line of generic, overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed heartthrob bands churning out immediately-forgettable music and a metric shit-ton of merch. They’re the NKOTB of a new generation. > > This too shall pass. I don’t like the tone of the above, but have to agree with the over marketing of KPop (JPop, CPop, American pop, European pop, et. al). However in the case of Kpop, you can’t argue with success. JYP Entertainment manages Twice (arguably the girl group equivalent of BTS) with extremely strict management rules and savvy marketing. And ITZY, their new group introduced this year is set to potentially overtake Twice, which started in 2016. “…overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed…”? Definitely. A model for success? Definitely! Edit: BTW, I’m a fan of Twice in that, while their songs may be “bubble gum”, they’re really catchy and addicting! Can’t have just steak and potatoes all the time! ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/104 "2019-05-10T21:36:12Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > “…overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed…”? Definitely. A model for success? Definitely! One thing K-pop always makes me wonder about is what music do disaffected Korean teens listen to. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/105 "2019-05-10T22:11:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s the perplexing thing to me (a 46 year old man)- these guys not only look young, but they look girly and effeminate. Most Western boy bands just have young, not overly masculine, but not overly feminine looking members, and usually that one older, more masculine looking member. > > I mean, look at BTS [here](https://www.grammy.com/sites/com/files/styles/news_detail_header/public/bts_red-carpet_2019_grammys_1097513762.jpg?itok=6jbGWPbi), versus NSYNC [here](http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/41400000/-NSYNC-1997-2001-nsync-41418124-559-560.jpg). > > Neither band is going to be confused with a biker gang or squad of Marines, but there’s just something more fundamentally girly about BTS that baffles me as to how they could be considered sex symbols or heartthrobs. You’re 46 - [surely](http://www.liketotally80s.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/80s-hair-bands-poison.jpg) [you](https://popgun.blob.core.windows.net/popgunv3resize/motley-crue-main-80s-2017-04-17.jpg) [remember](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/c9MdW8RISCI/hqdefault.jpg) [the](http://www.liketotally80s.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/80s-david-bowie-test.jpg) ['80s?](https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/rs-26739-rectangle.jpg?crop=900:600&width=300) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/106 "2019-05-11T01:32:53Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > I don’t like the tone of the above, but have to agree with the over marketing of KPop (JPop, CPop, American pop, European pop, et. al). However in the case of Kpop, you can’t argue with success. JYP Entertainment manages Twice (arguably the girl group equivalent of BTS) with extremely strict management rules and savvy marketing. And ITZY, their new group introduced this year is set to potentially overtake Twice, which started in 2016. > > “…overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed…”? Definitely. A model for success? Definitely! > > Edit: BTW, I’m a fan of Twice in that, while their songs may be “bubble gum”, they’re really catchy and addicting! Can’t have just steak and potatoes all the time! Speaking of Twice, tickets for their US tour went on sale today, and I got a couple for their show in L.A. Good thing I did because it’s just about sold out. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/107 "2019-05-11T03:59:56Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > [https://youtu.be/MBdVXkSdhwU](https://youtu.be/MBdVXkSdhwU) > > I officially renounce everything I said in my Tupac thread. With that said, I bid you farewell Straight Dope. I’m packing up and moving to the moon. This world is no longer something I can call home, I don’t know the first thing about things that always made sense to me. > > Watching that damn video, I had no fucking clue whether i was watching a boy band, a girl band or a clay band. I couldnt shake myself of the terrifying certainty that underneath those garish outfits, everything was smooth. Everything. > > Or, the BTS band is like the characters in the episode of South Park in which ads had finally become sentient. Maybe theze things arent human?? Maybe they are all actually just ads that ultimately, at a time programmed in their software when they’ve got us wrapped around their fingers, will drop the charade and start pushing Hyundai’s in earnest. I present to you, Kim Hee Chul [https://www.google.com/search?q=kim+hee+chul&rlz=1C1MSIM\_enUS785US785&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjckpyryJLiAhWpilQKHXBODkQQ\_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=879](https://www.google.com/search?q=kim+hee+chul&rlz=1C1MSIM_enUS785US785&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjckpyryJLiAhWpilQKHXBODkQQ_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=879), the most stunningly beautiful male I’ve ever seen. And this is from a hetrosexual male who admires and loves women a bit too much (…recalling the really dumb things I’ve done to get just a bit closer to a woman). The first time I saw him on the Korean variety show _Knowing Bros/Ask Me Anything_, I seriously thought he was actress Lee Na Young [https://www.google.com/search?q=lee+na+young&rlz=1C1MSIM\_enUS785US785&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmsamqyZLiAhUUs54KHaxgD0wQ\_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=879](https://www.google.com/search?q=lee+na+young&rlz=1C1MSIM_enUS785US785&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmsamqyZLiAhUUs54KHaxgD0wQ_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=879), who is one of my favorite actresses and was genuinely confused about my sexually for a few moments! ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/108 "2019-05-11T05:43:00Z")
I saw them on the cover of, was it Entertainment Weekly or Rolling Stone? One of the two. Haven’t read the article yet. I just pulled up “Boy with Luv” and I thought it was pretty good, actually. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/109 "2019-05-11T15:42:00Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Jesus Christ. Look, I meant the OP to be in good fun. I had never seen the phenomenon of kpop before and i found it humorous. And I likened them to alien-like sentient beings, not to girls, boys or “androgynous males”. I honestly meant no offense or mockery. If anything I mocked _myself_ for becoming a old, has-been who doesn’t “get-it” and wants these young’uns to turn that racket down! 😉 Can you show us the exact word you used in your OP to mock yourself? Something like “Damn, I’m getting old.” rather than “I couldnt shake myself of the terrifying certainty that underneath those garish outfits, everything was smooth. Everything.” and “Maybe theze things arent human??” That should be pretty straightforward to point out the words you used to mock yourself. If, infact you were doing that. Jesus Christ, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/110 "2019-05-11T17:26:41Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Can you show us the exact word you used in your OP to mock yourself? Something like “Damn, I’m getting old.” rather than “I couldnt shake myself of the terrifying certainty that underneath those garish outfits, everything was smooth. Everything.” and “Maybe theze things arent human??” > > That should be pretty straightforward to point out the words you used to mock yourself. If, infact you were doing that. > > Jesus Christ, indeed. Things like me saying I was leaving this world to live on the moon; not understanding things that used to make sense me, used to be comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/111 "2019-05-11T18:12:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > KISS is touring this year, as are The Who and Queen. The Rollings Stones would have toured except for Mick Jagger’s surgery. You may be getting AC/DC and Def Leppard as well. No foolin’?!? :eek: 😃 You, Sir, have just made my day. . . no . . . my week. Damn, those geriatric types can rock, and will show those kids a thing or two. Tripler This thread made me dust off my _Houses of the Holy_ CD. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/112 "2019-05-12T03:02:53Z")
My daughter is on her way to their concert right now. Not my thing, but enjoying them has been very helpful for her mental health this year. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/113 "2019-05-12T03:50:08Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Things like me saying I was leaving this world to live on the moon; not understanding things that used to make sense me, used to be comfortable. That’s really weak sauce. You clearly know how to mock when it’s Asian men, and it appears in the OP that you thought that the world was crazy, and not you. Whatever. It’s not a huge thing. I know people who are outright racists, such as my brother-in-law, and you don’t seem that. I probably wouldn’t have thought much about this if this weren’t just right after your Tupac thread. For some reason, male singers and sexuality or gender seems to be an issue with you. I can’t relate myself. Maybe because I’m pretty clueless, but I’ve never really wondered if rappers can or can’t be gay, if high school students’ acquired mannerisms determine their sexual orientation for their entire life, or if men in “garnish clothes” are or aren’t in possession of dangly bits, let alone felt certainty about the answer or the need to share those thoughts with the world. People often suppose that since I live in Asian, that I love Asian culture. Actually, there’s many things I don’t like and others I simply don’t care. I can’t name a single k-pop group (other than this), and despite living in Japan for 25 years, with the constant exposure to j-pop, I just never got into it. I just don’t see the need to mock them. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/114 "2019-05-13T09:34:01Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > I don’t like the tone of the above, but have to agree with the over marketing of KPop (JPop, CPop, American pop, European pop, et. al). However in the case of Kpop, you can’t argue with success. JYP Entertainment manages Twice (arguably the girl group equivalent of BTS) with extremely strict management rules and savvy marketing. And ITZY, their new group introduced this year is set to potentially overtake Twice, which started in 2016. > > “…overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed…”? Definitely. A model for success? Definitely! I’m aware it’s a model for success. That’s why it’s repeated over and over again - boy band/girl band gets thrown together, marketed the crap out of, releases a couple of factory-produced hits, and hormonally-tumultuous teens go mad for them. It’s been going on for a couple of generations, although the marketing has gotten slicker and the music less interesting. Usually what happens is that after a few years of adulation one or more band members decide that they’re the real talent of the group, go off to launch a solo career (successfully or not) and the rest of the group goes on “hiatus”. Then the solo career falters, there’s a reunion tour and they’re relegated to the easy listening stations while the next big manufactured thing takes their place. To use the UK scene as an example: One Direction lasted about five years before Harry Styles left. Take That, roughly the same before Robbie Williams left. The Spice Girls were huge, yet only really had four years between “Wannabe” and the breakup. A few groups hang on longer - Girls Aloud and Westlife managed almost a decade, and Boyzone about seven years. If you enjoy BTS, I’m not begrudging you that enjoyment. There have been manufactured bands whose music I have enjoyed too. But as I said - this too shall pass. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/115 "2019-05-13T10:11:29Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > If you enjoy BTS, I’m not begrudging you that enjoyment. There have been manufactured bands whose music I have enjoyed too. But as I said - this too shall pass. I think it’s more obvious when the cut off is for boy/girl groups, but _everyone_ has a pretty finite window for maximum popularity - even AC/DC, Def Leppard, the Stones. Your permanent playlist is pretty locked in by your early 20s, and it’s been decades since music has been a noticeable percentage of my spending, and only notably so when I track down something from that early period (finding Big Pig’s _BONK_ was a bit of a hassle). The real difference is what’s driving them. Boy/girl groups of all cultures stop when the company driving their success decide they’ve made enough of a return or the talent’s too much of a hassle. Bands formed on their own can keep going despite dwindling audiences, if they want to. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/116 "2019-05-13T17:04:17Z")
I believe this is limited to Kpop (in which singers can be in training for years before debuting, if ever), but once they debut, they typically begin a seven year contract under which the majority of their earning from the music goes to repay the debt collected during their training period. In addition, particularly for groups, the agency continues to provide room and board, adding to their debt. It takes most Kpop stars years to erase their agency debt and begin to earn money from their music. However, in general, most of the money they earn from non-music appearances such as acting and commercials are theirs and they can use that to pay down their agency debt early. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/117 "2019-05-13T20:14:46Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I think it’s more obvious when the cut off is for boy/girl groups, but _everyone_ has a pretty finite window for maximum popularity - even AC/DC, Def Leppard, the Stones. Your permanent playlist is pretty locked in by your early 20s, and it’s been decades since music has been a noticeable percentage of my spending, and only notably so when I track down something from that early period (finding Big Pig’s _BONK_ was a bit of a hassle). > > The real difference is what’s driving them. Boy/girl groups of all cultures stop when the company driving their success decide they’ve made enough of a return or the talent’s too much of a hassle. Bands formed on their own can keep going despite dwindling audiences, if they want to. All South Korean males must serve at least two years in the military by age 28. Several of the BTS members are in their mid 20’s and (if they haven’t already served) will likely join in the next year or so (it’s considered bad form to wait until you’re 28 to join). With very rare exceptions, this means that they’ll be out of the public eye for at least two years. An eternity in Kpop. Also, members rarely join at the same time. So it may be much more than two years before they’re a complete group again. During that time, the remaining members will create sub-units or carry on as individuals. This is one of the reasons Kpop groups (both male and female) tends to have a large number of members. The group can lose or replace several of the least popular members and still continue on. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/118 "2019-05-15T15:02:32Z")
By the way, BTS is the first group since the Beatles to have three Number One albums on the Billboard 200 chart in the span of twelve months. So anyone who keeps up with current pop music should have heard of them. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/119 "2019-05-16T22:18:25Z")
They were on Colbert last night. Considering their grasp of the English language, it was certainly better than[Pink Lady and Jeff.](https://tv.avclub.com/lost-in-translation-case-file-48-pink-lady-and-jeff-1798286202) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426/120 "2019-05-17T21:47:36Z")
Also saw the Colbert show. Very much less than impressed. I think the retro-Sullivan Show thing Colbert did doesn’t work with a group like this. Just a lot of posing while half pretending to lip sync to generic music. “Meh” is too high of praise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bts-have-you-heard-of-them-the-ads-have-officially-turned-sentient/833426.md?page=5)