# Bubastis pits Seeing-Eye Dogs; Confirms Asshole Status **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672 "2006-02-22T19:30:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bubastis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bubastis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubastis)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/61 "2006-02-23T08:51:53Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > He had learned to watch out not only for hazards on the ground, but overhead – enlarging his spacial sense that far was a very obvious process when one day he walked my friend into the underside of an open staircase, and was far more upset about it than she was. After that, he knew to look up as well as down and around. But Big Al told me dogs cant look up? 😃😃😃😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/62 "2006-02-23T11:44:59Z")
I knew a guy who had possibly the most over-protective guide dog in the world. This guy was a rower, so every weekend the dog would have to be tied up, otherwise he would run along the tow-path and attempt to jump into the river to “save” his owner. He was always so thrilled when his owner got out of the boat safe and sound. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/63 "2006-02-23T12:15:51Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > Bwa ha. In demos in schools, when I tell kids that service dogs can be trained to do the laundry, I always point out that they don’t sort 😉 and that the washer/dryer have to be front load. > > I had a Service Dog in training once who got SO EXCITED when he’d hear the washer spin down he’d RUN to it, skid to a stop right in front… wail while he waited… and then unloaded the washer and loaded the wet laundry into the dryer… funny dog. All I know is, I am _so_ tryin to teach my next dog to both do and _be excited_ about doing laundry. If I manage to succeed, I will consider myself having won at life, completely and utterly. (It’s just a damn shame I can’t think of a way to get em to do the dishes that doesn’t involve licking them clean.) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/64 "2006-02-23T13:10:31Z")
I’ve been to the movies with blind people on quite a few occasions. They can actually follow the movie quite well just by sound. Once in a while they might quietly ask a question about what’s going on, but usually they don’t have to. They watch TV, too. Back to the OP–I’d guess the dog could have gotten into a more inconspicuous location if the owner had told him to. I regularly see a lady on NJ Transit trains with a very large shepherd guide dog. He somehow crams himself into the tiny foot space, and looks perfectly content. You’d never know he’s there. It’s funny to be on a crowded train, and when it’s time to get off, there is this suddenly this GIGANTIC DOG standing there. 🆒 We see a lot of guide dogs in training around here, as The Seeing Eye is located in nearby Morristown, NJ. Learning to be considerate of other humans is a big part of the training for both the dogs AND the humans. Remember that the humans have to go through a lot of training in order to qualify for a Seeing Eye dog, too. Maybe the patron in the restaurant was just a jerk. Blind people can be jerks, too. As far as dogs being used for other disabilities–one of my favorite programs on TV is K9 to 5 on Animal Planet. It is about all the different jobs that dogs do, from the serious to the silly. The range of jobs is unbelievable. Of course there are various types of service dogs. One particularly odd one that I remember (maybe it was another show, but whatever…) is that this woman had some sort of neck problem, and that the best treatment was to wear a dog around her neck! The dog provided heat and pressure in a way that no heating pad could match. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/65 "2006-02-23T13:34:26Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Can I get an amen? Howzabout we apply whatever training techniques are used for service animals - who are universally well-behaved, in my expenience - to children? Imagine a restaurant with a child simply sitting at the table and eating like a civilized human being . . . > > As long as I’m wishing, I want a pony too. > > Anyway, if the dog’s breathing on your food, I say the answer is lying. Specifically, tell the owner that you’re uncomfortable around dogs, and you hate to be a bother, but you’d really appreciate it if she shifted the dog to her other side. Problem solved. The problem is they shut down the Ayn Rand institute for Child care. This was after the great escape of course. Seriously, kids are harder to train than Guide dogs. The most important part is that guide dog training get to reject any candidates that are not making it. We have to keep raising our kids as well as we can. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/66 "2006-02-23T14:01:28Z")
Reading this thread it occured to me how funny it would be to try to train a “guide cat”. The cat would be all like “You want me to do what? Screw you, I’m taking a nap”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/67 "2006-02-23T14:24:22Z")
By the way, genuine service dogs usually have some sort of indication that they are official working dogs. Guide dogs have the familiar harness. My brain is blanking on some of the other indicators. Bueller? A lady came into my work one day with a dog on a regular leash. We told her that dogs weren’t allowed. She totally snapped “he’s a service dog!” My coworker and I both smelled BS, but we let it go. The reasons we thought it was BS were the lack of obvious indicators and the lady’s defensive/aggressive attitude. We’re not a food establishment, but we really really don’t want dogs in the place for other reasons. Any kind of official service dog would be fine with us, and not just because of legal reasons. But random dogs? No way, Jose. Maybe this was a dog that she did depend on for some hidden disability, but if that were the case, she should handle the situation a lot differently. > [@What Exit?](#): > > Seriously, kids are harder to train than Guide dogs. The most important part is that guide dog training get to reject any candidates that are not making it. We have to keep raising our kids as well as we can. That’s true. As Jim undoubtedly knows, being a Jersey boy and all, washouts from The Seeing Eye are highly sought after as pets. They may have qualities that make them unsuitable to be working guide dogs, like inability to not be distracted by squirrels or something, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t make outstanding family dogs. Any dog that’s been through The Seeing Eye’s breeding and training is pretty much guaranteed to be healthy, intelligent, of a good disposition, and unbelievably well trained. The owner of a local yarn shop has a retired guide dog. This dog had some sort of trauma–hit by a car, I think–and had to be retired early, as she developed an anxiety problem. While some families are able to keep their retired guide dogs as pets, this one couldn’t, so the yarn lady adopted her. She’s a real sweetie. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/68 "2006-02-23T14:32:14Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Seriously, kids are harder to train than Guide dogs. The most important part is that guide dog training get to reject any candidates that are not making it. I can’t help but giggle evilly, imagining a bunch of wailing kids in one corner with signs around their necks that say “REJECTED”…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/69 "2006-02-23T14:38:33Z")
> [@Green Bean](#): > > By the way, genuine service dogs usually have some sort of indication that they are official working dogs. Guide dogs have the familiar harness. My brain is blanking on some of the other indicators. Bueller? Yes and no. The ADA states that service animals are not required to wear identifying equipment. Shop owners are allowed to ask if the animal is a service animal, and ask what its tasks are, but that’s the end of it. In the US, there is no requirement for certification, either - and this is a BIG cause for debate in the training world right now. And yes, we are seeing more and more people who bring a pet in a store saying “it’s a service animal!” when their dog is, truly, only a pet. Some of us are starting to lean towards certification across the board, minimal training requirements, and demonstrable task-training (with the exception made for seizure alert dogs). Now - that said - my service dog wears a vest with a handle, is clearly identified by the patches on his vest (“Service dog” and “working dog do not pet”). His vest also has a clear (waterproof and water tight!) ID pocket in which he carries his identification card and his business cards (which we give to kids who want to pet him but can’t - he gets emails!) Usually, “program dogs”, who are certified through an agency or have a trainer who has experience training SDs are identifiable and wear: -a bandana with their job name (especially hearing dogs who don’t need other special equipment) -a bright orange leash and collar with the job name (again, this used to be a hearing dog thing) -a cape/vest with patches of some sort (Working Dog, Hearing Dog, etc.) -a dog backpack with patches -a hard handled harness (guide dogs) -a fixed handled harness (mobility dogs) -a pulling harness and packs (mobility/wheelchair dogs) -photo ID tag on collar (seizure alert dogs, hearing dogs, etc - these are business card sized) -most of these dogs (or their handlers) carry a photo ID from a specific program or agency ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/70 "2006-02-23T15:15:42Z")
> [@Green Bean](#): > > …snip… > That’s true. As Jim undoubtedly knows, being a Jersey boy and all, washouts from The Seeing Eye are highly sought after as pets. They may have qualities that make them unsuitable to be working guide dogs, like inability to not be distracted by squirrels or something, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t make outstanding family dogs. Any dog that’s been through The Seeing Eye’s breeding and training is pretty much guaranteed to be healthy, intelligent, of a good disposition, and unbelievably well trained. > …snip… I don’t know the details, but growing up my wife’s family helped raise the candidates as puppies. She mentioned that they were amazed at the way a silly puppy would leave them and months later a perfectly behaving Seeing eye dog was the result of the training. Boot Camp for Dogs in a way. They did try to adopt one of the shepherds. She mentioned the batches of Puppies would all get names starting with the same letter. They had and Abel and later a Cybil. Makes me laugh that they had a \*\*Shepherd \*\* puppy named \*\*Cybil \*\* . I will now forward this post and thread to my wife so she can tell me everything I got wrong. Jim ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/71 "2006-02-23T15:50:56Z")
The seizure dog I mentioned upthread wears a vest sort of thing that’s quite obvious. It annoys me that people have to put things like “DON’T PET ME, I’M WORKING” on those – that should be a given. But I know how hard it is to resist the urge to pet them. The only reason I know it’s a seizure dog was because the second time I saw them I told the woman I hadn’t seen collies doing service work and she told me. I told her I’d heard of them but not seen them, which was true. I’m always happy when I see somebody out and about with their dog because I know how much of a help they can be. If I were in a situation where a dog was appropriate, I sure as heck would want one. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/72 "2006-02-23T16:09:40Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > Yes and no. The ADA states that service animals are not required to wear identifying equipment. Shop owners are allowed to ask if the animal is a service animal, and ask what its tasks are, but that’s the end of it. This really doesn’t make much sense. I understand the logic behind not be allowed to ask the nature of the dog’s service, and maybe owners don’t want to “advertise” the animal’s service status by making it wear a cape or whatever, but what would be wrong with requiring a simple ID card to be produced on request? We don’t let people park in handicap spots just because they claim to be disabled – they have to show the card/tag. Why not require the same of service animals? No more impostors. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/73 "2006-02-23T16:13:14Z")
> [@DogMom](#): > > I just wanted to highlight this part of the excellent points you made to add to it. _blushes_ Thank you! Not entirely used to getting compliments in the Pit. 😉 I have to say, though, I have little sympathy for people with non-life threatening dog allergies in this situation - and I have allergies. You’ve got allergies? Well, they’re _blind_. Count your blessings! ---
**Author:** ![mrklutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@mrklutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrklutz)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/74 "2006-02-23T16:26:52Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > Bwa ha. In demos in schools, when I tell kids that service dogs can be trained to do the laundry, I always point out that they don’t sort 😉 and that the washer/dryer have to be front load. > > I had a Service Dog in training once who got SO EXCITED when he’d hear the washer spin down he’d RUN to it, skid to a stop right in front… wail while he waited… and then unloaded the washer and loaded the wet laundry into the dryer… funny dog. Oh, man. Now I want a laundry dog. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/75 "2006-02-23T16:44:14Z")
> [@Green Bean](#): > > I’ve been to the movies with blind people on quite a few occasions. They can actually follow the movie quite well just by sound. Once in a while they might quietly ask a question about what’s going on, but usually they don’t have to. They watch TV, too. Another little high jack: Some movie DVD’s have versions for the visually impaired. Out of curiosity I watched a few minutes of one for _The Passion_. It was a voice over that deftly and succinctly described the visual action without talking over the dialog. It even included the credits. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/76 "2006-02-23T16:48:22Z")
Wait a sec, how was the dog at the table next to you breathing on your plate? Was the blind guy sitting on your lap or something? I mean, for the dog to breathe on your food, either it was sitting upright in a chair next to you or it had a giraffe-like neck. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/77 "2006-02-23T16:49:20Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > This really doesn’t make much sense. I understand the logic behind not be allowed to ask the nature of the dog’s service, and maybe owners don’t want to “advertise” the animal’s service status by making it wear a cape or whatever, but what would be wrong with requiring a simple ID card to be produced on request? > > We don’t let people park in handicap spots just because they claim to be disabled – they have to show the card/tag. Why not require the same of service animals? No more impostors. I totally agree with you. Hell, there are services available for people who “self-train” their own dog - you can easily get ID cards made by some service providers. Anyway - being able to identify the dog quickly, with a single glance (because it wears something identifying it as a working dog) certainly seems like the logical thing to do. You don’t have to answer questions, then, or deal with people offering questioning glances your way. I totally agree that SOMETHING should be done - be it an ID card for the _person_, if not the dog (for self-trainers, say) that confirms their disabled status… “imposters” are starting to be a problem for legit working dogs - we’ve seen an increase in incidents with fake service animals in public places. I even know of a guide dog who was attacked by a pseudo-service dog. Bad bad bad bad bad situation. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/78 "2006-02-23T16:53:23Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > At the risk of prying, by any chance do you have lupus? My cousin is a lupus sufferer, and pays regular visits to a rheumatologist, and has the chance of becoming immuno-compromised. Ankylosing Spondylitis, actually - and it’s the drugs, in our case, that can suppress the immune system. Bleh. It sucks! Rheumatologists are cool critters. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![YaWanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@YaWanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaWanna)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/79 "2006-02-23T18:19:33Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > I’m always happy when I see somebody out and about with their dog because I know how much of a help they can be. If I were in a situation where a dog was appropriate, I sure as heck would want one. Me, too. I have a “thing” about animals with jobs - it makes me feel good to see one, because they do seem to benefit not only the owner but themselves as well by having a “purpose” in life. It’s like the polar opposite of the poor animal that’s tied or chained to a tree in the backyard and ignored - a situation that sickens me. I see a woman with a service dog on my train to/from work sometimes - it’s a Rhodesian Ridgeback, which quite surprised me at first. Beautiful animal, perfectly behaved (of course), and she does her best to stay out of people’s way even if the train is crowded - which is more than you can say for most of the self-absorbed people I see on the train. I wish I could get a service dog, because sometimes that woman is the only one anyone will unhesitatingly give up a seat for - and I just don’t have the balls to announce my back problems to everyone so I can beg a seat. (I know - waaaah.) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672/80 "2006-02-24T07:28:16Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > Ankylosing Spondylitis, actually - and it’s the drugs, in our case, that can suppress the immune system. Bleh. It sucks! Reading the wikipedia article, it sounds like it. But look at the bright side…the [support group](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankylosing_Spondylitis#Famous_patients) would be pretty interesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bubastis-pits-seeing-eye-dogs-confirms-asshole-status/345672.md?page=5)