# Buchanan suggests we need an "American Spring" if Trump loses **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686 "2016-08-13T18:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/81 "2016-08-14T20:12:29Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Cite please. Pat routinely criticizes the actions of civil rights advocates when they’re black or gay, and never posts anything when blacks or gays are killed or brutalized in the US. I’m not sure how to cite that. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/82 "2016-08-14T21:58:57Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > He believes in an establishment, but one that is in line with the attitudes of “Middle America”. He believes the current establishment is dangerously out of line with the rest of the country and warns of what will happen if it continues. The problem is the attitudes of “Middle America” are those of _one_, large but _no-longer-majority_ faction. There is no entitlement for those to be the establishment that is to apply to us all. When Pat wonders out loud whether the election of a consummate insider can be the true result of an election in a “year of the outsider”, he is of course distorting the nature of the process. In the primary Hillary and Donald won, but only among those who bothered to show up, with the majority of America having NOT bothered. In the general, the race will be decided by state-by-state votes _of those who bother to show up_. So hell yeah you CAN get the _“how could it be Candidate X won? nobody I know voted for them!”_ phenomenon and it does not mean anything went wrong. And yes, Pat is a believer in “cooling the streets”. He wants someone on the R side to come into office who will appease the RW and make them feel less besieged, while making the LW feel they need to switch to a “preserve the gains” position and stop asking for more. My problem with that is that a lot of the current high level of agitation derives exactly from years of first NeoCon then Tea Party candidates promising to do something to steer the nation to the Right and failing to deliver anything but profits to their backers. What happens if an R President comes into office and decides to try to cool the streets, but then 20 or 30% of Middle America Common Clay of the New West types still show up demanding where the hell is their damn wall, how come they can still hear a call to prayer from a local mosque, what is an out lesbian doing in command of Fort Jackson and why haven’t you annulled every Obama-era law? ---
**Author:** ![john\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@john\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_L)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/83 "2016-08-14T22:00:02Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > **john L** I don’t think we are taking it out of context. Buchanan’s argument seems to be thus: > > The electorate wants an outsider. The GOP wants to stop Trump because he is an outsider. If Hillary (who is an insider wins) then there will be revolt by people who wanted an outsider. If peaceful revolt doesn’t work, people may resort to violent revolt. > > Numerous problems with this argument. > > 1. Hillary won the primary. She got 16 million votes vs about 13 million for Bernie, and 13 million for Trump. The electorate spoke, they wanted Hillary. And in the general the same thing will happen, the electorate will speak and want Hillary. Buchanan is confusing Trump supporters (who will never accept the legitimacy of a democratic president) and a small minority of Bernie supporters with ‘the american people’ as a whole. > > 2. Trump is being pushed out by the GOP because he is dangerously incompetent, has almost no chance of winning and will sink lots of state and local GOP races. The fact that he is an outsider worked against him, but the fact that he is a horrible candidate is the bigger factor. > > 3. Bernie lost. Yes, the DNC was biased against him. But the RNC was biased in favor of Jeb Bush and Bush still lost. Just because the powers that be are in favor of or against someone doesn’t mean that they set the election. If they did, then Jeb would be the GOP candidate and Bernie never would’ve had a chance. All the powers that be can do is tip the scales a bit. > > 4. Some Bernie supporters cannot let go of the fact that Bernie lost, but that doesn’t mean Hillary stole 3 million votes. In my experience it is a minority of Bernie’s 13 million voters who hold onto these conspiracies that Bernie should’ve won. The powers that be were biased against Bernie, but if he had won 17 million votes in the primary to Hillary’s 16 million, then he would be our nominee no matter what the DNC wanted. But that didn’t happen. > > 5. Just because the candidate you prefer loses in an open and free democratic election doesn’t mean the election was stolen. It also doesn’t mean you have a right to violent revolt just because you lost an election. Pat groups both Trump & Bernie supporters together under " outsider " banner. which they were in primaries. nobody’s won or lost Nov. general election yet. nobody’s voted yet. ---
**Author:** ![john\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@john\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_L)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/84 "2016-08-14T22:05:19Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Definitely read it. > > It is just a bit of silliness. No the process is not “fraudulent” even if a very few who lost on the Democratic side believe that that can be the only reason Sanders lost and Trump is claiming that the only reason he’ll lose will because “I wuz robbed!” No, very very very very few will buy that. > > Will some small number of Trump’s supporters riot or otherwise commit acts of violence after Trump loses? I seriously doubt it but one never knows what a few crazies can stoke themselves into, especially when egged on by irresponsible “leaders.” > > But no there will not be inevitable “violent revolution” as a result of Clinton being elected. There won’t even be peaceful protests and demonstrations. > > I do wonder how Buchanan and his ilk would have reacted to a Black leader having stated that if Obama lost it could only be because the process was rigged and that mass violence would be inevitable, or McGovern and his promoters having said that for that matter. > > What a Nimrod. > [@john\_L](#): > > Pat groups both Trump & Bernie supporters together under " outsider " banner. > which they were in primaries. > > nobody’s won or lost Nov. general election yet. > nobody’s voted yet. lotsa what if’s . ---
**Author:** ![john\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@john\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_L)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/85 "2016-08-14T22:08:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Are you asking or telling? Because while Sanders talked about a “rigged economy” early on I’m not so sure that Trump didn’t start talking about rigged primaries first. referenced " Bernie supporters " … not him. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/86 "2016-08-14T22:58:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Pat never seemed to have much of a problem with violence against every day black people or gay people, and went out of his way in his writings to praise Hitler. He just doesn’t seem to like certain kinds of violence. > **[Islam & the West: Irreconcilable Conflict?](https://buchanan.org/blog/islam-west-irreconcilable-conflict-125343)** > > On Saturday night, Omar Mateen was a loner and a loser. Sunday, he was immortal, by his standards, a hero. Mateen had ended his life in a blaze of gunfire and glory. Now everybody knew his name. He… > [@GIGObuster](#): > > The apologists of dictators and racists are not the ones who are anti-war. > I could imagine that after all the talk of sophistication you would demonstrate how there is none in your arguments. Good show! > Nope, the droughts and extreme weather was one of the most likely predictions of a warming world, there is nothing sophisticated on embracing the denial of that. And the logic of what extreme droughts will led us. > > [The Ominous Story of Syria's Climate Refugees | Scientific American](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ominous-story-of-syria-climate-refugees/) > Not only a non-sophisticated argument, but an ignorant one. As the linked article reports the droughts made worse by global warming are a factor, others do include the bad government policies from Asad. > And only a straw man here also, and very ignorant too, but then not surprising that you remain a supporter of Pat Buchanan. Scientists report that the changes of droughts and extreme precipitation in some regions increase. There is no science on what Trump and Buchanan are advising. > > [News | NCAR & UCAR News](http://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/attribution/steroids-baseball-climate-change) > > [Climate change](http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs266/en/) > > Of course, go ahead and show to all how an ignorant you are that I also did criticize Malthus many times in the past, the problem remains that we do have a party that does not even believe in preparing ourselves and making the predictable damage to be manageable as humanity has done many times in the past. > Straw man again, there must be a sale somewhere. 🙂 > And so much for sophisticated replies indeed. > > The case of Syria (even if you completely take way the influence of human made global warming) demonstrates that it does not matter how advanced and cozy you get, the point has been made in many past discussions is that while in some regions of the earth what you think will happen is most likely that it will not be so cozy in many other regions of the earth. And we can count on the mega xenophobia of guys like Pat and Trump to prevent the needed relocation of people from some regions, meaning that while a climate scientist can not predict what society will do I can tell you as my social studies experience and training tells me what many societies will do by following the “church mouses” like Pat and Trump. > > The denial of climate change does lead also to the denial that hundreds of thousands, if not millions will be displaced and will attempt to go to the places where that food production will increase. But the bigotry that is present will ensure that thousands if not hundreds of thousands will die, not much so of thirst, but by the unrest caused for the displacement and to the efforts to prevent that movement of people. > As it was found many times with Trump you are the one that has nothing regarding a sorry defense of a troglodyte. There would be a good fig leaf on what Pat and Trump are going for but what they are saying is not happening in a vacuum, the sorry and unsophisticated excuse that in a case where he is telling us that some groups should follow what Kennedy recommended when there is fraud going on (and once again Pat has no evidence for this really) should be disregarded is really silly once we look at all the past trash that he has published and posted. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And you only demonstrated that you failed the class. 🙂 > > What you are omitting here is what I notice on many conservatives, a blind spot for time lines. All what Pat is going on would be good advice if it was just about convincing people to go to the ballot box to solve the issues. > > Pat goes off the rails by insisting that the coming election will be fixed and what the “real” Americans he posts for should do; so, no Brexit situation really. Pat is supporting the political equivalent of shouting fire in a crowded theater. This is because, until he shows good evidence, Pat is just recklessly reporting on a lie of a point to make his article and then he goes for an appeal to his “real” Americans and to the evil angels of their nature. It seems you are unhappy with human comfort. The far left still hangs on to its hardcore religious origins that viewed any human enjoyment as a sin. Fossil fuels have led to human comfort and flourishing, so they must be the devil! Pat is riffing on Donald’s “rigged” theme. He never suggests the vote itself will be rigged. He only does typical Pat stuff, talking about how the establishment is allied against Trump and “Middle America”. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Well Brexit passed with just barely over 50% of the popular vote, so it’s certainly hyperbole to say staying in would have been “dangerously out of line with the rest of the country”. And the Tunisian, Egyptian and Prague “Springs” weren’t government run referendums. I have no interest in taking a Buchanan 101 class. I just read this opinion piece and took it at face value. I didn’t say Pat was correct. I said I understood his viewpoint. On its face, there is no sign of Pat’s “hope” for social upheaval. That interpretation has to be read into the text. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Just to remark again on that grossly unsophisticated point of yours. > > The point there was to show that you would indeed toss the most sophisticated Republicans under the bus, and you did deliver. 🙂 > > But besides more sophisticated Republican politicians the reality is that there are smarter Republicans than that. Scientists that do see the danger unlike the few FUD ones that Republicans like Pat Buchanan are using that are cuddled and paid for by the fossil fuel industry. > > The more numerous Republican scientists are discouraged nowadays by the current ignorance that is reigning among Republicans. > > [http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS334109598520120222](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS334109598520120222) > Pat Buchanan does not mind if our civilization will burn by his recommended inaction. On that issue Pat is like a church mouse that demands that we should all keep quiet and ignore the cat that is coming. > > [http://mediamatters.org/research/2009/12/21/buchanan-claims-climate-change-is-a-hoax-becaus/158366](http://mediamatters.org/research/2009/12/21/buchanan-claims-climate-change-is-a-hoax-becaus/158366) Look I see that this issue is really your “thing” and you’re delighted that you can bash Buchanan over and over again for irrelevant positions. That being said, I have no interest in discussing the climate issue here. Start a thread titled “Fossil Fuels were a negative development for mankind” and I may participate. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > The problem is the attitudes of “Middle America” are those of _one_, large but _no-longer-majority_ faction. There is no entitlement for those to be the establishment that is to apply to us all. > > When Pat wonders out loud whether the election of a consummate insider can be the true result of an election in a “year of the outsider”, he is of course distorting the nature of the process. In the primary Hillary and Donald won, but only among those who bothered to show up, with the majority of America having NOT bothered. In the general, the race will be decided by state-by-state votes _of those who bother to show up_. So hell yeah you CAN get the _“how could it be Candidate X won? nobody I know voted for them!”_ phenomenon and it does not mean anything went wrong. > > And yes, Pat is a believer in “cooling the streets”. He wants someone on the R side to come into office who will appease the RW and make them feel less besieged, while making the LW feel they need to switch to a “preserve the gains” position and stop asking for more. My problem with that is that a lot of the current high level of agitation derives exactly from years of first NeoCon then Tea Party candidates promising to do something to steer the nation to the Right and failing to deliver anything but profits to their backers. What happens if an R President comes into office and decides to try to cool the streets, but then 20 or 30% of Middle America Common Clay of the New West types still show up demanding where the hell is their damn wall, how come they can still hear a call to prayer from a local mosque, what is an out lesbian doing in command of Fort Jackson and why haven’t you annulled every Obama-era law? I agree. Pat grossly overestimates the size and homogeneity of his “Middle America”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/87 "2016-08-14T23:14:53Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > [Islam & the West: Irreconcilable Conflict? – Patrick J. Buchanan – Official Website](http://buchanan.org/blog/islam-west-irreconcilable-conflict-125343) Good one. I forget that there’s a hierarchy of acceptable violence for those like Pat – white on black or straight on gay violence doesn’t get a peep from him, but a Muslim? They just crossed Pat’s line! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/88 "2016-08-14T23:19:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > It seems you are unhappy with human comfort. The far left still hangs on to its hardcore religious origins that viewed any human enjoyment as a sin. Fossil fuels have led to human comfort and flourishing, so they must be the devil! Like I said, you must had found a sale of straw men at Costco. 🙂 But here you also demonstrate that you are once again an **ignorant** of what I posted before, it is a false dilemma argument what you are going on here. **Most of the changes proposed were explained even by conservative scientists like Richard Alley**. None of them lead one to conclude that we should end civilization as we know it, nor forgo many modern creature comforts. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Pat is riffing on Donald’s “rigged” theme. He never suggests the vote itself will be rigged. He only does typical Pat stuff, talking about how the establishment is allied against Trump and “Middle America”. And that is as unconvincing as Pat “the environmentalist”. Unless he has evidence what he is going for continues to be reprehensible. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Look I see that this issue is really your “thing” and you’re delighted that you can bash Buchanan over and over again for irrelevant positions. That being said, I have no interest in discussing the climate issue here. Start a thread titled “Fossil Fuels were a negative development for mankind” and I may participate. On that you are also wrong, it is relevant as this also has a connection with the Syrian refugees and Pat Buchanan is also a “champion” for opposing doing the human thing. The overall point to me is that Pat Buchanan has demonstrated that he is a crank magnet, just like Trump. His gross ignorance does lead him to fall for more, as in his apologies to Hitler and the confederate cause. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/89 "2016-08-14T23:50:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > … Pat is riffing on Donald’s “rigged” theme. He never suggests the vote itself will be rigged. He only does typical Pat stuff, talking about how the establishment is allied against Trump and “Middle America”. … The TITLE of the bit is > [@Buchanan](#): > > Yes, the System Is Rigged His initial bit states > [@](#): > > “I’m afraid the election is going to be rigged,” Donald Trump told voters in Ohio and Sean Hannity on Fox News. And that hit a nerve. > > “Dangerous,” “toxic,” came the recoil from the media. > > Trump is threatening to “delegitimize” the election results of 2016. > > Well, if that is what Trump is trying to do, he has no small point. Easy to _misinterpret_ that as meaning that the process is rigged don’t ya think? Your take, being fluent in Buchananese, is that a Clinton victory will be the result of “the establishment”, inclusive of GOP leadership, protecting their hegemony, in service of creating “endless migrations of Third World peoples who consume more tax dollars than they generate, and who will soon swamp the Republicans’ coalition” so long as it also helps the “preservation of their perks, privileges and power.” That establishment will achieve that goal by convincing people to vote against Trump though, not by rigging the actual vote … and getting a majority to vote one way over the other is somehow very unfair, or even evil. Given your fluency in Buchananese can you please translate the following? > [@](#): > > the Republican electorate should tell its discredited and rejected ruling class: If we cannot get rid of you at the ballot box, then tell us how, peacefully and democratically, we can be rid of you? 'Cause honestly the words are English but it makes no sense in the language. If we can’t succeed by having more votes tell us how to succeed by having more votes? The only way I can imagine parsing it in the context is to be saying that since these people do not actually have the votes to accomplish what he thinks are their goals (you know, meaning they are not the majority) then they are being left with no option but violence. BTW [here](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=9100) is the context of that JFK quote. The irony of a speech celebrating the one-year anniversary of the Alliance for Progress being used in defense of xenophobia and isolationism and hate is not missed. > [@JFK](#): > > One year ago, on a similar occasion, I proposed the Alliance for Progress. That was the conception, but the birth did not take place until some months later, at Punta del Este. That was a suggestion for a continent-wide cooperative effort to satisfy the basic needs of the American people for homes, work, land, health and schools, for political liberty and the dignity of the spirit. > > Our mission, I said, was “to complete the revolution of the Americas–to build a Hemisphere where all men can hope for a suitable standard of living–and all can live out their lives in dignity and freedom.” > > I then requested a meeting of the Inter-American Economic and Social Council to consider the proposal. And, seven months ago, at Punta del Este, that Council met and adopted the Charter which established the Alianza para el Progreso and declared, and I quote, “We, the American Republics, hereby proclaim our decision to unite in a common effort to bring our people accelerated economic progress and broader social justice within the framework of personal dignity and individual liberty.” … > > … I know the difficulties of such a task. It is unprecedented. Our own history shows how fierce the resistance can be to changes which later generations regard as part of the normal framework of life. And the course of rational social change is even more hazardous for those progressive governments who often face entrenched privilege of the right and subversive conspiracies on the left. > > For too long my country, the wealthiest nation in a continent which is not wealthy, failed to carry out its full responsibilities to its sister Republics. We have now accepted that responsibility. In the same way those who possess wealth and power in poor nations must accept their own responsibilities. They must lead the fight for those basic reforms which alone can preserve the fabric of their societies. **Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.** > > These social reforms are at the heart of the Alliance for Progress. They are the precondition to economic modernization. And they are the instrument by which we assure the .poor and hungry–the worker and the campesino–his full participation in the benefits of our development and in the human dignity which is the purpose of all free societies. Bolding of course mine. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/90 "2016-08-15T00:09:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > BTW [here](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=9100) is the context of that JFK quote. The irony of a speech celebrating the one-year anniversary of the Alliance for Progress being used in defense of xenophobia and isolationism and hate is not missed.Bolding of course mine. Oh, **DSeid** , you had to remind me. :mad: I also had a conection with those words that were not heeded by future Republican Administrations. [https://www.thenation.com/article/el-salvador-rising/](https://www.thenation.com/article/el-salvador-rising/) > [@](#): > > At the time, Pentagon strategists still viewed El Salvador as “an experiment, an attempt to reverse the record of American failure in waging small wars, an effort to defeat an insurgency by providing training and material support without committing American troops to combat.” On the home front, however, a majority of Americans were souring on the Central American counterinsurgencies, and were flatly against sending American ground troops. The US was forced to accept a negotiated peace accord in 1992, having failed to defeat the FMLN after spending $6 billion and contributing to 90,000 deaths over a twelve-year war. Besides that failure on the battlefield, it had become idiotic to accuse the FMLN of being agents of a Soviet Union which no longer existed. > > Now “Los Angeles is the second capital of El Salvador,” Rosanna Perez says of the place she lives. Carlos Vaquarano was in El Salvador for countless meetings during the inauguration along with leaders of CARACEN and El Rescate. CARECEN in LA today services 65,000 immigrants with legal aid and advocacy, and has fifteen sister organizations in cities like San Francisco; Houston; Washington, DC; New York; and Boston. Salvadorans are experts at multiplying organizations; one of CARECEN’s founders, Angela Sambrano, how heads the National Alliance of Latin American and Caribbean communities. > > **The irony is that in the 1980s White House communications director Pat Buchanan was promoting low-intensity warfare in Central America, while today he is a vociferous opponent of the “flood” of Central American immigrants, never acknowledging that his own administration caused their exodus.** Yes, there are personal reasons too why I dislike Pat Buchanan. Like **Cardinal Ximenes** could say: \*There are FOUR! Four infamies from Pat, among them are climate change denial… Hitler apologies… being a Confederate Apologist… and Lying about American election fraud to incite rebellion… and defending butchers of priests, peasants and work leaders in El Salvador… FIVE! \* ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/91 "2016-08-15T00:53:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Here’s the direct quote from the [direct source:](http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/yes-the-system-is-rigged/) > > Now, I certainly don’t agree with Buchanan, but weren’t all of those peaceful protest movements? I didn’t know a pro-Brexit right-winger murdering a MP was peaceful. Live and learn. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/92 "2016-08-15T01:01:55Z")
> [@theR](#): > > I didn’t know a pro-Brexit right-winger murdering a MP was peaceful. Live and learn. The guy was a Neo-Nazi with a history of mental health issues. If you are going to claim that he is representative of the Brexit movement, you’ll have to do better than that little bit of snark. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/93 "2016-08-15T03:06:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Buchanan is predicting violence if a marginalized minority is defeated electorally. Hardly a controversial opinion. Like I said, you and those like you simply do not understand the conservative position. Pat Buchanan adores Nixon. He is right wing in a very true sense in that he wants social stability and a common morality. These two things go out the window in a revolution. He wants a figure like Nixon to stride across social disintegration and restore national identity. You simply are not familiar with Buchanan’s rhetoric and writing style. Nobody needs to understand Pat Buchanan’s worldview the way you are characterizing it – which is a questionable characterization at best. We can plainly read what he’s written, and we can understand it in the context of the current race. What he has opined in the past is irrelevant. He’s writing about the present, and describing in ominous language that Hillary Clinton’s victory would not be legitimate in the eyes of some (apparently including him). You can try to phrase however the hell you want, but that’s what it comes down to: should we accept the outcome of a democratic election or not? I think we should. A majority of voters who vote for the winning candidate would probably believe the same. The natural counter-question is, why should we not respect the will of a majority of those who vote? The fact that conservatives are a “marginalized” minority that is somehow overlooked by smug progressives and centrists who have hijacked their country doesn’t invalidate the election. Maybe conservatives should accept the fact that in the marketplace of ideas…nobody is buying any of the shit that they’re selling. There’s that ya know. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/94 "2016-08-15T03:38:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > We can plainly read what he’s written, and we can understand it in the context of the current race. What he has opined in the past is irrelevant. Just a nit here. I’m old enough to know how authoritarians do see the world, and talking aloud about electoral fraud is one common component of right wingers in many places of the world when they do not get what they want at the ballot box. Past Republican administrations whitewashed many military strongmen in Latin America and the Coup d’états or real electoral frauds that got them in power, and Pat Buchanan was there making the lime paint. Seems to me that it is pertinent to mention that Pat learned the wrong lessons from Latin America and remembers the “good old days” with glee. Of course those ideas were supposed to be used elsewhere; but paleo conservatives (and many Trump supporters) like Pat seem to ominously want to apply them also in the USA because he does realize that the chances of strong rule for the groups of “true Americans” like him, in his mind, are going away. He is right on that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/95 "2016-08-15T03:49:59Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > We understand the right’s point of view quite well, thank you. > > [The Science of Conservative vs Liberal Brains](https://braindecoder.com/post/politics-neuroscience-1282982492) > [Unconscious Reactions Separate Liberals and Conservatives | Scientific American](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/calling-truce-political-wars/#) > [http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/new-studies-show-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-brain-structures](http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/new-studies-show-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-brain-structures) > [http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/how-conservative-brains-are-wired-differently-and-what-means-our-politics](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/how-conservative-brains-are-wired-differently-and-what-means-our-politics) I see these results have been confirmed by several research teams. Party affiliation can be guessed rather accurately with a single brain-scan reading when subject is shown a “disgusting” image! Although many of the articles are careful to assign value to conservative cognition ( > [@](#): > > Haidt … wants the left to acknowledge that the right’s emphasis on laws, institutions, customs and religion is valuable. Conservatives recognize that democracy is a huge achievement and that maintaining the social order requires imposing constraints on people. ), conservatives generally reject these studies, unread — not surprising since it is liberals who embrace critical thinking and the scientific method. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686/96 "2016-08-15T10:21:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Seems to me that it is pertinent to mention that Pat learned the wrong lessons from Latin America and remembers the “good old days” with glee. Of course those ideas were supposed to be used elsewhere; but paleo conservatives (and many Trump supporters) like Pat seem to ominously want to apply them also in the USA because **he does realize that the chances of strong rule for the groups of “true Americans” like him, in his mind, are going away.** > > He is right on that. I attempted to post a much longer response yesterday but it was so long that my rebuttal got timed out and for whatever reason, I couldn’t submit it. Anyhow, the bold part of the response is one of the things I was going to bring up. This isn’t really a new phenomenon but rather the continuation of something I’ve been observing since 1992 when Bill Clinton, the draft-dodging, dope-smoking anti-war protester turned Yale lawyer was somehow astonishingly elected over a sitting president who was a WWII veteran, an anti-communist stalwart, and who had just 18 months earlier had one of the highest approval ratings of any president in modern history. I remember even then, conservatives just couldn’t accept the fact that voters had gone democratic. In their minds, either the liberal media had successfully brainwashed a new generation of voters or Clinton was an evil anti-christ who could fool millions of people into voting for him. This sentiment is no doubt what fueled the endless investigations and his ultimate impeachment proceedings. Republicans for the past 25 years have been losing in the marketplace of ideas and rather than trying to innovate and reach across demographic groups, they’ve resorted to doubling down on their self-righteousness and tried to find ways to overturn votes, delegitimize political opposition, and limit democratic voter participation. Now faced with what could be one of the most significant defeats in recent memory, the republican party is taking their fight to new and more dangerous extremes. Some are now openly suggesting that the outcome is only valid if it represents their worldview. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buchanan-suggests-we-need-an-american-spring-if-trump-loses/762686.md?page=4)