# Bud Selig must be stopped! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 27, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443 "2009-07-27T16:44:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/21 "2009-07-27T19:45:57Z")
Discussion from today: Even if he only bet on his team to win, the days he didn’t place a bet might have been assumed by bookmakers to mean that he knew his team was going to lose. Interesting theory and it makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/22 "2009-07-27T20:33:59Z")
The facts are known, folks. > **[DowdReport.com is for sale | HugeDomains](https://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=dowdreport.com)** > > Shop a wide selection of domains at HugeDomains.com. Find the right domain name today. That’s the report from the Dowd commission that examined every aspect of Pete Rose’s involvement with gambling on baseball. Notable quotes from the agreement: “Peter Edward Rose acknowledges that the commissioner has a factual basis to impose the penalty provided herein, and hereby accepts the penalty imposed on him by the Commissioner and agrees not to challenge that penalty in court or otherwise.” Now it also concludes that Rose didn’t admit to anything at all. But that’s one hell of an agreement to sign if you think you’re innocent. Pete Rose also lied under oath about his betting on baseball. From the summary: “As detailed more extensively herein, Pete Rose has denied under oath ever betting on Major League Baseball or associating with anyone who bet on Major League Baseball. However, the investigation has developed evidence to the contrary. The testimony and documentary evidence gathered in the course of the investigation demonstrates that Pete Rose bet on baseball, and in particular, on games of the Cincinnati Reds Baseball Club, during the 1985, 1986 and 1987 seasons.” NOTE: Pete Rose was both manager and PLAYER in 1985 and 1986. So the argument that he wasn’t on the field doesn’t hold up. In short, Rose bet on baseball games. He bet on his own team. He consistently lied about it, both under oath and otherwise. Not only did he do so but he conspired with gamblers and bookmakers to hide his activities. Many checks for his losses were sent to Micheal Bertolini and others and these checks were made out to fictitious payees to hide his activities. In the 1987 season there is much evidence that Rose placed bets through Paul Janszen on baseball. Evidence such as taped phoen conversations, betting records from Rose’s home, and others. Rose consistently denied it at the time. In short, Rose is a lying bastard who would lie and cheat to get reinstated. There is, simply, no means by which anyone could determine that any repentance on his part would be real. No means at all. ---
**Author:** ![slitterst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecc23a/32.png) [@slitterst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slitterst)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/23 "2009-07-27T20:52:02Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Correct. As it stands now, Rose is not eligible. If he gets taken off the ineligible list, then it will be up to the writers to decide. Nope. Election into the hall by the writers has to happen within 20 years of retirement. Rose retired as a player in 1986. His vote would go through the Veterans Committee. ---
**Author:** ![Obeseus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbce88/32.png) [@Obeseus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obeseus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/24 "2009-07-27T20:54:59Z")
Even if Rose is reinstated, he is not eligible by the BBWAA due to the following rule: > [@](#): > > A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election. Many think each player is entitled to 15 years on the ballot. Not so. A player retires 5 years, then he has the period of 15 years until he has no longer played in the past 20 years. Rose last played in 1986, so he’s done. If Darryl Kile, for example, had been a Gil Hodges like candidate, he could have been on the ballot for more than 15 years (due to the provision that a player dying becomes eligible six months from his death.) Unless MLB makes a special exception for Rose, the BBWAA won’t see his name on the ballot. That puts it up to the Veterans Committee, which can be scary no matter which side of the fence you are on. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/25 "2009-07-27T21:03:34Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > “As detailed more extensively herein, Pete Rose has denied under oath ever betting on Major League Baseball or associating with anyone who bet on Major League Baseball. However, the investigation has developed evidence to the contrary.” Ah-hah! So for all we know, all Rose did was _associate_ with someone who, at one time or another, happened to lay five bucks on a game. Foul, I cry! Foul! Ok, ok…I know, I’m just funnin’… ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/26 "2009-07-27T21:11:58Z")
> [@slitterst](#): > > Nope. Election into the hall by the writers has to happen within 20 years of retirement. Rose retired as a player in 1986. His vote would go through the Veterans Committee. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/27 "2009-07-27T21:53:17Z")
> [@slitterst](#): > > Nope. Election into the hall by the writers has to happen within 20 years of retirement. Rose retired as a player in 1986. His vote would go through the Veterans Committee. The Veterans Committee now looks to be an old boys club, literally. The members are all HOF players themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/28 "2009-07-27T22:04:03Z")
I suppose if he does become eligible, he’ll get in, because even with its limited importance and power the veterans’ committee is still going to be an old boys’ club. And yes, the idea of Rose being reinstated in any way is galling. He doesn’t deserve it and lied and lied about it for about 20 years - and when he did come clean it was only to sell a book. Baseball shouldn’t indulge him. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/29 "2009-07-27T22:44:47Z")
It’s a lifetime ban, right; will he be eligible once he’s dead? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/30 "2009-07-27T23:29:15Z")
He would need to be pulled off the ‘ineligible list’ to be considered. That doesn’t end with death. I believe Joe Jackson is STILL on the list. Heck, most of the Black Sox are still on the list. Hmm. It’s longer than I thought… > **[Major League Baseball's "permanently ineligible" list (thing) by BrooksMarlin...](https://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1512122)** > > With all of the recent brouhaha (or, if you prefer, “folderol”) about Pete Rose trying to be reinstated and placed into the baseball Major League Baseba... ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/31 "2009-07-27T23:46:30Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Hmm. It’s longer than I thought… > > [http://everything2.com/index.pl?node\_id=1512122](http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1512122) Holy crap. Mantle was on the banned list at one time? How the hell have I never heard of that? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/32 "2009-07-28T00:05:44Z")
Those two I knew about. They associated with gamblers by working for a casino and out they went. Didn’t keep them from the Hall of Fame, though. That rule was passed in 1991. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/33 "2009-07-28T06:58:46Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > I’ll never get the amount of wailing that this issue generates. If he bet on his team to lose, that’d be an absolutely unforgiveable offense – but betting on your team to _win_? Give me a damn break. Yes, it’s a relatively big deal, and if he was booting from the sport for it, that’s fine. But keeping him out of Cooperstown cheapens the entire institution. There’s no question he would be in the HOF if not for the gambling, so put him in there already and stop making a mockery of Hall. It’s a bad enough offense to keep him banned from the sport forever, but it’s ok to grant him baseball’s greatest honor? I’m missing the logic. I’m thinking that putting him is would make a mockery of the Hall. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I certainly wouldn’t trust Selig to make that judgment himself, but if the owners collectively can rubber-stamp it, then it’s hard to say no. Selig **is** the owners’ rubber stamp. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/34 "2009-07-28T10:46:24Z")
At an Indie film fest this year in West Hollywood I saw a preview for a film on Pete Rose coming next summer called “4192.” What else? It only tells the story of his highlights on the field, NOT about the gambling. That’s where it ends. If Cooperstown could watch this, maybe they can push Selig. I’ve been a Rose fan ever since I watched baseball. I have over 300 of his cards (lots of other players too) and watched him be a hero on the field to the Reds and Phillies. I will agree that I also REALLY did not like how he handled the accusations or the punishment. He was immature about it and I lost faith in him as an individual, NEVER as one of the greatest to ever play. That all said, fuck Selig. 4192, baby! (I’ll look for a link for the film 🙂 .) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/35 "2009-07-28T11:47:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The BBWAA added another rule, barring anyone from the ballot who is not in good standing with MLB (aka the Pete Rose Rule), to take away the temptation. This, my friends, is the root cause of this problem. Bud Selig should not be responsible for who is and isn’t eligible for the HOF. His responsibility is MLB, and banning Rose was the right move, you cannot trust a gambler in a position of authority. Because of this stupid rule by the BBWAA, he is pressured to reinstate someone who doesn’t deserve reinstatement, entirely over the HOF issue. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/36 "2009-07-28T12:04:36Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > He was immature about it and I lost faith in him as an individual, NEVER as one of the greatest to ever play. Being a lying dick and smearing someone who did honest work only qualifies as being “immature” in your book? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/37 "2009-07-28T14:14:03Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > There’s not really a conflict between a manager wanting to win his bet, and wanting his team to win. The goal is winning, and both motivations further that goal. Not saying betting on his own team was a good idea…it wasn’t, but it also wasn’t a “Black Sox” level disgrace to the game. Pssst- how do YOU know Pete only bet on the Reds to win? You have ONLY Pete Rose’s word for that. And Pete Rose lied through his teeth for 20 years, insisting he never bet on baseball, period. How can you possibly take Pete’s word for it, when you KNOW he’s an unrepentant liar? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/38 "2009-07-28T16:54:20Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This, my friends, is the root cause of this problem…Because of this stupid rule by the BBWAA, he is pressured to reinstate someone who doesn’t deserve reinstatement, entirely over the HOF issue. It isn’t up to the BBWAA anymore. His 15 years are up. If Rose is reinstated, the HOF decision will be made by the Veterans Committee - now consisting of the Hall’s current members. And ya know, I can’t think of anyone else whose opinion matters nearly as much. It’s their game and their work he defiled, and therefore their forgiveness that matters. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/39 "2009-07-28T17:02:35Z")
Rose is over rated. His lifetime batting average was not special.(303). He beat Cobb by having a million at bats. But he did break the record and if his ego was not so large, he would have been in long ago. He insisted he did nothing wrong. But, the stories kept coming out ,one after another. He still lied. He was eventually broken down. He was forced to concede a few points, but still very grudgingly. Possibly the whole truth has not come out. Maybe it never will. But, if it does ,who expects it to come from Pete. Baseball makes it clear how seriously they take gambling. Rose was well aware. He just figured it did not apply to him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443/40 "2009-07-28T17:06:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Baseball makes it clear how seriously they take gambling. Rose was well aware. He just figured it did not apply to him. Maybe I don’t understand addictions well enough, but my understanding was that he didn’t really “figure” it at all. Gambling was just something he had to do, whether on baseball or the horses or whatever. To the extent he remembered the consequences of being caught, he just might have “figured” he wouldn’t be caught, and if he were, he was such a hero that he’d get away with it anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bud-selig-must-be-stopped/504443.md?page=3)