# Buddhism and Loneliness **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273 "2019-06-10T00:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/81 "2019-06-18T22:05:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It’s MY fault I can’t forget, hardly seems likely. Er, who else’s fault would it be? (Note that I’m including your brain in the set of things that are “you”. Stupid brains.) Also, I’m still not following why the supposed artificiality of the world matters. Whether the coffee table is fake or not, I can still stub my toe on it, and it still really hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/82 "2019-06-19T18:55:01Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Saying the world is a distraction isn’t much better than the world is an illusion. It’s essentially saying that things don’t matter, which is still another problem I had and still do with Buddhism. You still get those who claim that anything that appears doesn’t exist and says that Buddhism says so. Let’s not also forget that Buddhism also says that things only exist in your mind, so there’s nothing layered about what you speak of. > > I don’t care about status or outshining people. From middle through high school I never kept up with the Joneses, I just did things I liked because I enjoyed them, not to prove anything. But even so that is NOT what Buddhism says, rather it just calls personal pursuits that don’t have to do with enlightenment as pointless and meaningless. So according to Buddhism I am not free to do my own thing if that thing isn’t the Dharma. Buddhism IS what’s ruining me, not what Buddhism claims is ruining me. > > You can’t really compare Buddhism to medicine because one is a science while the other is debatable as to whether it is or not. > > This has nothing to do with overcoming loneliness, but more with how Buddhism looks at the human condition as a problem to solve rather than something to experience. I am not always lonely, but when I am I don’t like to be told it’s some disease. Because that’s what Buddhism also refers to anger and other “negative” emotions, a disease. Where are you getting that Buddhism says loneliness is a disease? You’ve come to some bizarre conclusions because you’re not experiencing Buddhist teaching. You’re just cherry picking all the stuff that has negative meaning to you and amplifying it. You keep talking about Buddhism ruined you, but you never say how. Did you actually go to a service, or did you just glance at their website? Have you actually discussed anything with Buddhist monks and/or nuns, or did you avoid contact with them? What was this horrible experience that psychically crippled you? I’m thinking you make a lot of shit up. Where did I compare Buddhism to medicine? I said “You may as well tell everybody who practices medicine not to bother with all those years of study and expense because we have Web MD.” That was meant to express the futility you’re going through when you cherry-pick a few sentences here and there without exploring context. I keep telling you this isn’t cut-and-dry situation and that you have to explore from the ground up, but you don’t want to listen. Now you’re moving the goalposts and saying it’s not about loneliness. You keep moaning about how Buddhism ruined you and there’s no hope. You obviously don’t want to change and would rather rot in solipsistic misery. Whatever suggestions we give, you turn into gloom and despair. How’s that improving your life? I’ve said my piece, and now I bid you a cheese fondue as I remove this thread from my portal. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/83 "2019-06-19T20:21:40Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Where are you getting that Buddhism says loneliness is a disease? You’ve come to some bizarre conclusions because you’re not experiencing Buddhist teaching. You’re just cherry picking all the stuff that has negative meaning to you and amplifying it. > > You keep talking about Buddhism ruined you, but you never say how. Did you actually go to a service, or did you just glance at their website? Have you actually discussed anything with Buddhist monks and/or nuns, or did you avoid contact with them? What was this horrible experience that psychically crippled you? I’m thinking you make a lot of shit up. > > Where did I compare Buddhism to medicine? I said “You may as well tell everybody who practices medicine not to bother with all those years of study and expense because we have Web MD.” That was meant to express the futility you’re going through when you cherry-pick a few sentences here and there without exploring context. I keep telling you this isn’t cut-and-dry situation and that you have to explore from the ground up, but you don’t want to listen. > > Now you’re moving the goalposts and saying it’s not about loneliness. You keep moaning about how Buddhism ruined you and there’s no hope. You obviously don’t want to change and would rather rot in solipsistic misery. Whatever suggestions we give, you turn into gloom and despair. How’s that improving your life? > > I’ve said my piece, and now I bid you a cheese fondue as I remove this thread from my portal. I have been showing you how it has ruined my life but you don’t seem to want to admit that in essence Buddhism makes anything that goes outside of seeking enlightenment seem pointless and meaningless. I say this having attended such services in the past and speaking to monks. They all say that ultimately the worldly life must be discarded. That worldly pursuits don’t bring true peace. It just made me feel worse, and they weren’t much help when I asked them about attachment. You say I cherry pick but I’m not, I’m just showing the “hard parts” of Buddhism that most people gloss over or don’t know. It’s not just meditation or peace of mind. It’s essentially about leaving your whole “World” behind for true realization, and that involves losing things that matter to you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/84 "2019-06-19T22:26:02Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > They all say that ultimately the worldly life must be discarded. That worldly pursuits don’t bring true peace. Okay, but: is it _true?_ You say they say worldly pursuits don’t bring peace; did you ask around? Are there people who are doing, like, ‘worldly pursuits’ stuff, and who sure do seem to have a ‘pretty much at peace’ thing going on — and can you maybe ask them, _so, hey, looks like you’ve maybe got a worldly life that you haven’t discarded, but it looks like you have, uh, peace of mind? Kind of a wry and philosophical outlook going on, even as you still seem to be accomplishing stuff in this world of appearances? So, uh, what’s going on, there? It’s like you’re acting with purpose, but you’re kind of calm and kind of happy and kind of — wise? Am I pronouncing that right?_ ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/85 "2019-06-19T22:37:18Z")
My dear fellow posters: All of the arguments in this thread have been given befre in previous threads, and none of them, no matter how cogent, have satisfied the OP nor relieved his/her apparent anxiety. Not one. Noting this, many Dopers have urged the OP to get psychiatric help. That has also had no effect. Perhaps engaging with the OP enables or exacerbates whatever is really going on here. Something to consider, perhaps. Best wishes to all. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/86 "2019-06-19T23:25:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Okay, but: is it _true?_ > > You say they say worldly pursuits don’t bring peace; did you ask around? Are there people who are doing, like, ‘worldly pursuits’ stuff, and who sure do seem to have a ‘pretty much at peace’ thing going on — and can you maybe ask them, _so, hey, looks like you’ve maybe got a worldly life that you haven’t discarded, but it looks like you have, uh, peace of mind? Kind of a wry and philosophical outlook going on, even as you still seem to be accomplishing stuff in this world of appearances? So, uh, what’s going on, there? It’s like you’re acting with purpose, but you’re kind of calm and kind of happy and kind of — wise? Am I pronouncing that right?_ I’m guessing it’s true that plenty of people are just fine without whatever Buddhism posits. I just don’t know how some read and research it and just ignore or don’t bother with it. LIke how do they get past stuff like “If we have no desires then we do nothing” to which the response from the monk is “why do we have to do anything”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/87 "2019-06-19T23:31:49Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I’m guessing it’s true that plenty of people are just fine without whatever Buddhism posits. I just don’t know how some read and research it and just ignore or don’t bother with it. > > LIke how do they get past stuff like “If we have no desires then we do nothing” to which the response from the monk is “why do we have to do anything”? Why jump ahead to that? You say you guess that plenty of people are just fine even without the stuff being posited; do you guess that plenty of people manage that by having _no_ desires, or by having _manageable_ desires? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/88 "2019-06-19T23:38:08Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I’m guessing it’s true that plenty of people are just fine without whatever Buddhism posits. I just don’t know how some read and research it and just ignore or don’t bother with it. Well, I’ve read a lot of stuff that you’ve put out here and my responses/dismissals have generally fallen into one of: 1. That person is clearly an idiot and doesn’t know what he’s talking about. 2. Even if it were true, what’s so bad about that? 3. That dude can do/believe this if he wants to, but there’s no reason I should do/believe the same. 4. What was the problem with this, again? > [@Machinaforce](#): > > LIke how do they get past stuff like “If we have no desires then we do nothing” to which the response from the monk is “why do we have to do anything”? I must be missing some context, because it sounds like the first person is trying to argue in the defense of having desires based on doing things, itself, being good. And that’s a really stupid argument for why it’s okay to have desires which _should_ be dismantled in much the way the monk is claimed to have done. The real defense of having desires is, of course, because it feels good to feel good. Axiomatic value based on biological wiring, baby! ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/89 "2019-06-20T02:29:40Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I have been showing you how it has ruined my life but you don’t seem to want to admit that in essence Buddhism makes anything that goes outside of seeking enlightenment seem pointless and meaningless. So then why are you trying to become a Buddhist? So you can feel even more “pointless and meaningless”? Seriously, this is like “Oh, no, I keep reading Nietzsche and sitting through hours of Sam Beckett plays, and for some reason nihilism just isn’t cheering me up.” Well, quit trying to be a nihilist. Duh. Look, get professional help, do the work they suggest, but until then… Stay away from the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/90 "2019-06-20T02:59:35Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > LIke how do they get past stuff like “If we have no desires then we do nothing” By saying “No shit, Dick Tracy?” That is a statment of the bloody fucking obvious. There are thousands of equally goofy philosophies in the world, and none of them are worth wasting your time on unless you enjoy it. The weird thing is why you are obsessing over this particular one. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/91 "2019-06-20T04:11:47Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > My dear fellow posters: > > All of the arguments in this thread have been given befre in previous threads, and none of them, no matter how cogent, have satisfied the OP nor relieved his/her apparent anxiety. Not one. Noting this, many Dopers have urged the OP to get psychiatric help. That has also had no effect. > > Perhaps engaging with the OP enables or exacerbates whatever is really going on here. Something to consider, perhaps. > > Best wishes to all. +++++++! to THIS! At one point I thought the OP may be trolling, but it’s even sadder than that, I think leaning towards he’s serious. _SIGH_☹ ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/92 "2019-06-20T04:17:34Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > My dear fellow posters: > > All of the arguments in this thread have been given befre in previous threads, and none of them, no matter how cogent, have satisfied the OP nor relieved his/her apparent anxiety. Not one. Noting this, many Dopers have urged the OP to get psychiatric help. That has also had no effect. > > Perhaps engaging with the OP enables or exacerbates whatever is really going on here. Something to consider, perhaps. > > Best wishes to all. +++++++! to THIS! At one point I thought the OP may be trolling, but it’s even sadder than that, I think leaning towards he’s serious. _SIGH_☹ ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/93 "2019-06-20T09:48:47Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > +++++++! to THIS! > > At one point I thought the OP may be trolling, but it’s even sadder than that, I think leaning towards he’s serious. _SIGH_☹ A point worth repeating? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/94 "2019-06-20T16:12:18Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > +++++++! to THIS! > > At one point I thought the OP may be trolling, but it’s even sadder than that, I think leaning towards he’s serious. _SIGH_☹ Except it isn’t true. The problem is with the claims themselves and their truth value. It doesn’t help that the people who say such things appear better off than most, which to me makes it seem like they are right. That to get rid of your suffering and depression you need to let go of desire. That dreams and wishes don’t last when you achieve them and you suffer when they fail or aren’t realized. Which means that it is essentially making my drives and wants sound pointless and that one must follow them to be happy. I can guess that some people are happy without this stuff, but for how long? The idea here is that these people who say this stuff seem to have a different “better” level of happy than what we do, because they let go. Personally I think life is for living and experiencing and doing. Spending all that time n contemplation and meditation just to end up spending the rest of your data in such tranquility seems like a waste of time to me. There is little difference between that and suicide to me. Without desires and drives it’s not that different from death. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/95 "2019-06-20T16:13:41Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > My dear fellow posters: > > All of the arguments in this thread have been given befre in previous threads, and none of them, no matter how cogent, have satisfied the OP nor relieved his/her apparent anxiety. Not one. Noting this, many Dopers have urged the OP to get psychiatric help. That has also had no effect. > > Perhaps engaging with the OP enables or exacerbates whatever is really going on here. Something to consider, perhaps. > > Best wishes to all. Excerpt the replies here aren’t any of that. They don’t address the claims that I shared or offer any counter points to them. Psychiatric help won’t apply here. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/96 "2019-06-20T16:16:42Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Personally I think life is for living and experiencing and doing. Spending all that time n contemplation and meditation just to end up spending the rest of your data in such tranquility seems like a waste of time to me. Seems like you have it figured out. Personally, I don’t spend _any_ time in contemplation or mediation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/97 "2019-06-20T23:49:23Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I can guess that some people are happy without this stuff, but for how long? Let’s find out! You say you “think life is for living and experiencing and doing.” So — _try that,_ if you figure it’ll work, and see if you can be “happy without this stuff”. Just, y’know, see if it’s _so,_ and if it’s sustainable, and for how long; and if the numbers don’t work, then, sure, maybe try your hand at that desirelessness thing, I guess. But if it _works?_ If you’re living and experiencing and doing and also getting a big fine share of happiness along the way while you’re in the ‘desiring’ business? If the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and, cousin, business is a-_boomin’?_ That’s my whole point: first you run the experiment, and _then_ you pencil the words “Yes, very true” into the margin of some book on Kant, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/98 "2019-06-21T04:58:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Let’s find out! > > You say you “think life is for living and experiencing and doing.” So — _try that,_ if you figure it’ll work, and see if you can be “happy without this stuff”. Just, y’know, see if it’s _so,_ and if it’s sustainable, and for how long; and if the numbers don’t work, then, sure, maybe try your hand at that desirelessness thing, I guess. > > But if it _works?_ If you’re living and experiencing and doing and also getting a big fine share of happiness along the way while you’re in the ‘desiring’ business? If the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and, cousin, business is a-_boomin’?_ > > That’s my whole point: first you run the experiment, and _then_ you pencil the words “Yes, very true” into the margin of some book on Kant, or whatever. The problem is that I am afraid of them being right, that every time A desire of mine goes unfulfilled and I get sad it just proves their point and that I should rid myself of desires. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/99 "2019-06-21T10:36:00Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > The problem is that I am afraid of them being right, that every time A desire of mine goes unfulfilled and I get sad it just proves their point and that I should rid myself of desires. Have you tried splitting the difference? Let’s say you can go through life with lots of big desires that often go unfulfilled, a process which — as you say — sure does leave you sad. Okay. Let’s _also_ say one can sidestep that problem by — as you say — ridding yourself of desires. Is there an in-between option? Can you, like, _moderate_ your desires? Get them down to a manageable level, to where you’re (a) still driven to accomplish stuff while living and doing and experiencing and all those things you were just saying, but (b) _not_ by repeatedly working yourself up into some kind of fever pitch of giddy anticipation before routinely sinking back down into negativity? If you’re like unto someone who drinks too much, and you think teetotalers may be on to something — well, hey, maybe that works for them, and maybe swearing it off could work for you; I don’t know. But if you’re like a guy who drinks too much, and who can emulate those who _drink in moderation,_ maybe that could work? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/100 "2019-06-21T12:04:36Z")
I am only qualified here by virtue of actually ‘doing’ Buddhism rather than thinking about it. I spent several years living in a Buddhist practice center. I did this mainly because I was miserable and was filled with self-loathing. There were plenty of people like me there. Neither Buddhist philosophy nor practice helped me find personal happiness. Growing up did. It took awhile. Your problem has nothing whatsoever to do with Buddhism. You just are using it to fuck with your own mind and make yourself miserable. If you were unaware of its existence you would find and use something else for the same purpose. Buddhist philosophy is about seeing the world the way it actually is. You are failing Buddhism 101, because you are NOT seeing the world the way it really is, you are using your incorrect, shallow, cherry-picked ideas about it to create your own personal nihilistic fantasy of what Buddhism is. If you really wanted to understand, you would actually PRACTICE Buddhism, which is the only way to understand it. The only only only only way. Did I say it was the only way? It is. Whatever you think you know about Buddhism is completely wrong. Bet on it. Nor can it be explained in words. Nothing is clearer than your intention to keep on doing exactly what you are doing now, which is self-destructive and hard to watch even from this distance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273.md?page=6)