# Buddhism and Loneliness **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273 "2019-06-10T00:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/141 "2019-06-29T23:12:43Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > PLus if I buy into that “no self” literally then it would render anything I like or want to do pointless. The second part is correct. That would describe a state of enlightenment. Only it’s not that there is _no_ self, but rather that the self is no longer of any importance. It is just a pit stop in eternity. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/142 "2019-06-30T02:47:36Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > The second part is correct. That would describe a state of enlightenment. Only it’s not that there is _no_ self, but rather that the self is no longer of any importance. It is just a pit stop in eternity. They why do it? Why would i throw away the things I love and what give my life meaning? Sounds too much like nihilism. Suicide would be a better option to be honest but they threw in rebirth to stop people from doing that. Also I don’t think there is eternity. My life was honestly better without learning about it and worse after. If I could forget it I would. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/143 "2019-06-30T02:49:55Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You don’t know what they are doing. You need to take time to read any of many many books about it. It’s as if you had an opinion about the way the universe formed, but you feel like you’ve got a handle on stuff, intuitively, and don’t need to read anything. You do. I really don’t. Especially since Buddhism gets mixed reviews from some people I read. Some of say that Buddhism “gets close” but it’s too focused on niceness to get there. If you got rid of compassion and love then you would have it. But I’m not unintentionally giving weight to them because I believe them. It’s more like seeking approval that you are doing the right or “correct” thing, and that’s it. It’s not because I genuinely like and believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/144 "2019-06-30T03:05:11Z")
I guess I am looking for permission to not follow it. I remember when I went a center over 5 years ago, and there was a monk from the Tibetan school teaching there. I essentially vomited all my concerns about this to him and he told me that I was too young for this and to wait until like after 35 (which to me felt like a stay of execution since it would mean I would have to follow this when I am over that). My guess is that he meant I didn’t have the life experience to understand the teachings being said so they would be moot to me. I didn’t listen and just rammed my head against a wall and failing. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/145 "2019-06-30T04:05:09Z")
Permission from whom? Us? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/146 "2019-06-30T04:32:16Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Permission from whom? > > Us? Seriously? Or I guess from those who follow it. But It’s just this sense that I have, which I know is just that a “sense” that I ought to follow it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/147 "2019-06-30T17:22:42Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I guess I am looking for permission to not follow it. I give you permission to not start any more threads on the subject. They clearly are doing you no good. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/148 "2019-06-30T21:28:12Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > IANABuddhist, so I may have this wrong, but. . . > > As I understand it, in the practice of Buddhism one is meant to achieve a complete release of the “Self.” If you are using Buddhist quotes and teachings piecemeal in order to make your “self” feel better in various circumstances, then you are missing the point entirely. Rather, it should become progressively less important to you whether your particular “self” is suffering or not. > > As a kid I read an old Buddhist-inspired re-telling of the Hansel and Gretel story. At the end, Hansel tells Gretel that they have not sinned in killing the witch, because it was in self-defense. And Gretel responds that the sin is in having so much “self” sticking out all over you, that you might have to kill to defend it. That story is kind of negated by bees and ants that defend the hive, and some plants that develop defenses against being eaten. Also doesn’t that go against compassion? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/149 "2019-06-30T21:47:33Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > That story is kind of negated by bees and ants that defend the hive, and some plants that develop defenses against being eaten. > > Also doesn’t that go against compassion? AIUI Buddhism does not hold the behavior of animals as being more natural and therefore somehow innocently superior to human behavior. Buddhism considers animals to be lesser beings, and that there is a hierarchy raising one’s awareness up and through to human. Honestly, I know next to nothing about Buddhism, and yet I obviously know vastly more than you do. I don’t think you’re fully qualified to argue on the subject. I’m done here. I wish you luck in your studies. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/150 "2019-07-01T01:14:12Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I guess I am looking for permission to not follow it. You have our permission to **get professional help** so that you have a shot at stopping your obsessions and learning to just enjoy life. If you choose not to get help, posting here won’t help. You wouldn’t start a thread and say > [@](#): > > I’ve had a splinter in my foot for years and it’s so hard limping everywhere. Other people who limp say I should start using crutches. > > It’s interfering with my marathon-running, and I’m miserable. See my other ten threads on the subject. > > But you should know something: If you say I should get the splinter taken out of my foot, I should warn you that I will never do that. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/151 "2019-07-01T03:01:09Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > AIUI Buddhism does not hold the behavior of animals as being more natural and therefore somehow innocently superior to human behavior. Buddhism considers animals to be lesser beings, and that there is a hierarchy raising one’s awareness up and through to human. > > Honestly, I know next to nothing about Buddhism, and yet I obviously know vastly more than you do. I don’t think you’re fully qualified to argue on the subject. > > I’m done here. I wish you luck in your studies. I know that the story you told is pretty easy to dismantle (at least the point they make). But I had to correct you about the “Self”, they don’t say it’s not important, just that there is no permanent and unchanging self (I.e. no Soul unlike Hinduism which says there is). I’m not really gonna dignify their claim about the cycle of rebirth and working your way up to human. There is nothing that would lead one to believe that (although I guess there is to them). But there is no “sin” in self defense, it’s natural. Same as killing, it happens all the time to plant and animal alike. Sin is a human thing (which is why I said some spiritual types say Buddhism gets close to the Truth). The fact that plants develop traits to resist being eaten kind of throws a wrench in that story, unless they suggest plants are conscious. From what I read and heard about Buddhism there are some things in it that require a leap of faith to believe. And also in my experience interacting with them (among other spiritualists) they are pretty good at deflecting valid criticisms of their teachings. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/152 "2019-07-01T03:02:17Z")
> [@digs](#): > > You have our permission to **get professional help** so that you have a shot at stopping your obsessions and learning to just enjoy life. > If you choose not to get help, posting here won’t help. You wouldn’t start a thread and say Kind of hard to do that with all this stuff bogging me down. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/153 "2019-07-01T04:12:36Z")
I’ll give you this. You are definitely being the most unbuddhist in your approach that you could be. That is to say that you are almost a caricature of someone doing exactly what they are trying to overcome in practicing, (judgement etc.) and it seems you have absorbed enough to know inside what that means. And you are drawn to it. You sound very confused. You are in a growth process. The point where one glimpses satori usually comes directly after just this kind of reversal of affect. This won’t happen right now for you because your path has just begun. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/154 "2019-07-01T04:39:44Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I’ll give you this. You are definitely being the most unbuddhist in your approach that you could be. That is to say that you are almost a caricature of someone doing exactly what they are trying to overcome in practicing, (judgement etc.) and it seems you have absorbed enough to know inside what that means. And you are drawn to it. You sound very confused. You are in a growth process. The point where one glimpses satori usually comes directly after just this kind of reversal of affect. This won’t happen right now for you because your path has just begun. Good luck. I’m not, I’m just tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt simply for being Buddhist and nothing else. It’s like some weird appeal to authority and not genuine interest. My guess is that if other people didn’t put it on some pedestal then this wouldn’t be happening. I’m not drawn to it. That is the first mistake you make. Do not mistake obsession/addiction for genuine interest. This is not growth, it’s just a chain. Stagnation and refusal to just let it go. There is no such thing as satori (as I have tried to tell you, it’s not insight just brain chemistry). There is no “path”. I’m not trying to overcome judgment, which is where you are wrong again. I’m trying to let this go and get on with my life. Buddhism from when I first read it didn’t help me at all, and it’s been hard to let it go and move on. Meditation did nothing for me no matter long I practiced it. Their description of suffering and reality didn’t match my experience. This is just the same issue that happened when I started with conspiracy theories, then nihilism, then anti natalism, etc. It’s just a refusal to drop an idea or belief system and get on with life. You are projecting things onto my situation that aren’t even there, like most of the Buddhists I have spoken to before. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/155 "2019-07-01T05:02:21Z")
I do not care if people follow it or believe what it teaches. I just want to be able to let it go and say it is not for me. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/156 "2019-07-01T11:46:26Z")
Then do that. None of us can do it for you. It’s clearly not for you. Blatantly so. The ability to let it go lies entirely with you and no one else. Chatting with us isn’t going to change whether or not you can find the internal fortitude to leave off with something that clearly doesn’t serve you! You want permission, but the truth is that if you’re adult and you’re seeking permission, no matter whom you _ **appear** _ to be seeking it from you’re actually seeking it from yourself! The ONLY person who’s permission you require to drop this nonsensical loop you’ve built for yourself, is your own. We could serve you up our permission by the boatload but it wouldn’t really make a difference. If you truly ‘don’t care’ if people follow or believe it, that would apply to yourself as well. And you’d be able to leave it behind with ease. You need some professional help to get out of this philosophical trap you’ve set up for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/157 "2019-07-01T11:56:31Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > You need some professional help to get out of this philosophical trap you’ve set up for yourself. The OP has been getting this advice for years, across a dozen different threads that all end up in the same place. He’s never given any sort of evidence that he plans to follow that advice. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/158 "2019-07-01T17:51:02Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I’m not, I’m just tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt simply for being Buddhist and nothing else. It’s like some weird appeal to authority and not genuine interest. My guess is that if other people didn’t put it on some pedestal then this wouldn’t be happening. > > I’m not drawn to it. That is the first mistake you make. Do not mistake obsession/addiction for genuine interest. This is not growth, it’s just a chain. Stagnation and refusal to just let it go. There is no such thing as satori (as I have tried to tell you, it’s not insight just brain chemistry). There is no “path”. > > I’m not trying to overcome judgment, which is where you are wrong again. I’m trying to let this go and get on with my life. Buddhism from when I first read it didn’t help me at all, and it’s been hard to let it go and move on. Meditation did nothing for me no matter long I practiced it. Their description of suffering and reality didn’t match my experience. > > This is just the same issue that happened when I started with conspiracy theories, then nihilism, then anti natalism, etc. It’s just a refusal to drop an idea or belief system and get on with life. You are projecting things onto my situation that aren’t even there, like most of the Buddhists I have spoken to before. I just meant you are being a caricature of an “un-buddhist.” Of course you are not trying to overcome judgement. You are totally wallowing in it. That’s the point. You are making buddhism into “the other”, so you won’t get on with your life til you acknowledge the relationship between your obsession with it and your growth as a person. That is an internal discussion, just between you and you. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/159 "2019-07-01T18:05:45Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I just meant you are being a caricature of an “un-buddhist.” Of course you are not trying to overcome judgement. You are totally wallowing in it. That’s the point. > > You are making buddhism into “the other”, so you won’t get on with your life til you acknowledge the relationship between your obsession with it and your growth as a person. That is an internal discussion, just between you and you. Again, no. You need to stop reading what isn’t there. I don’t see Buddhism as the other, not truly. It’s just one of many (not the same thing). My obsession with it is the same as all my other obsessions whenever I read something new: fear of being wrong and wanting to be right and correct. That’s all it amounts to. The greatest fear I have is “what if I am wrong”? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-and-loneliness/835273/160 "2019-07-01T18:31:57Z")
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