# Buddhism feels like a chain for me **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 13, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878 "2019-05-13T01:37:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/81 "2019-05-15T00:14:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Underline added. How about responding with a shrug and a chuckle? Just like you would if someone told you Jesus was the son of God, born to a virgin, who ascended up to heaven after being crucified. People believe weird shit, but you don’t have to let it get you down. I don’t know. They said they can type up long explanations of spiritual teachings that explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/82 "2019-05-15T00:16:50Z")
I mean to be honest the biggest headache to me is that the main teaching in Buddhism or Hinduism is that this world isn’t rea/is an illusion/ a dream/ doesn’t exist and that consciousness is all there is. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/83 "2019-05-15T00:41:49Z")
It is a steaming pile of horseshit. Ignore it. 50,000,000 Elvis fans _can_ be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/84 "2019-05-15T05:35:00Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It did say it when it said there are no rocks or rivers **It does not say that, anywhere in the article. \*\* Just to be clear to everyone else getting involved in this pointless discussion with you, who may not have followed the link, and thought you were actually quoting something it said: _the words “rock” and “river” do not even occur, anywhere in the article_**. Just to be safe, I checked the words “stone”, “pebble” and “stream” ,on the assumption \*\*Machinaforce \*\*also doesn’t understand the meaning of the word “quote”. They don’t occur, either. There is a reference to “mountains” and “waters”, but I’ve already shown above where **Machinaforce selectively interpreted there, and left out the actual conclusion that author arrives at, which is the exact opposite** of “mountains and water don’t exist”. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/85 "2019-05-15T06:47:16Z")
I’ll try to let it go. Try to not listen to the fear. Because from my personal view, and not the fear, these spiritual teachings they use as proof seem more like anecdotes and not real data. Someone cited a Course in Miracles, which made be scratch my head. But I’ll try. But the fear is hard to move past. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/86 "2019-05-15T14:14:47Z")
I feel you bro. Fear is indeed the mind-killer. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/87 "2019-05-15T17:32:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I feel you bro. Fear is indeed the mind-killer. :rolleyes: Homer Simpson said alcohol was the mind-killer. Which is it then? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/88 "2019-05-15T17:33:09Z")
> [@](#): > > It amazes me how often I’ve seen the word “is” throughtout this site. Nothing “is”. Things resemble, apeear, or have some qualities of other things, but no thing “IS” another thing. Most grown adults know what “is” means, so most grown adults lie incessantly everyday. “The sky IS blue. The air IS cold. That man IS ugly.” Lies. Is it also a lie to say that “reality IS illusion”? > [@](#): > > They said that thing don’t exist, and that all there really is is consciousness, and that you are alone. Things do exist. We know that, because things outside consciousness impact us and we can’t control them. Sure, images exist in our minds, and they correspond to external realities to a greater or lesser degree, and the images aren’t the same thing as reality. But the disparity doesn’t show that reality doesn’t exist. Objects unsupported fall towards the earth’s center, because gravity is not just a veil. That’s true whether anyone is conscious of it or not. That’s why stars shine - because gravity compresses large balls of hydrogen together hard enough to fuse into helium. And that happened long before you or I were aware of it. The light that hits the earth was emitted about eight minutes ago, and the photons took hundreds of thousands of years to work their way from the sun’s core to the outside. All that happened before anyone was aware of it. When the tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, it does make a sound. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/89 "2019-05-15T17:34:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Homer Simpson said alcohol was the mind-killer. > > Which is it then? Fear for sure. It’s hard to reason out of since you think there is logic to it based on how you feel. No matter how reasoned and well thought my argument is the fear doesn’t care. It’s not the first time my reasonable mind loses to fear. It’s a powerful primal emotion. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/90 "2019-05-15T17:40:16Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Fear for sure. It’s hard to reason out of since you think there is logic to it based on how you feel. No matter how reasoned and well thought my argument is the fear doesn’t care. It’s not the first time my reasonable mind loses to fear. It’s a powerful primal emotion. Jokes aside, my initial post in this thread, similar to my other posts in your threads, still applies – I hope you are seeking and getting the professional help you need to deal with these feelings and unhealthy thought patterns. You seem intelligent. Be a shame to waste an inquisitive mind like yours on pointless obsessive thoughts and fears. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/91 "2019-05-15T22:41:10Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Jokes aside, my initial post in this thread, similar to my other posts in your threads, still applies – I hope you are seeking and getting the professional help you need to deal with these feelings and unhealthy thought patterns. You seem intelligent. Be a shame to waste an inquisitive mind like yours on pointless obsessive thoughts and fears. Curiosity is a burden and interesting for me. It’s just that I get stuck on stuff that scares me like “this world is an illusion” or “nothing that changes or appears is real”. Not only does it make no sense at all to me but the fact that someone said or believes it drives me made because I want to know what they know. The sad thing is that in the face of such “big” questions, nothing else matters (at least to my mind) because if this isn’t real or is an illusion then there’s no point in doing anything or learning anything about a false world. I had a problem before with solipsism but got over it, yet now I read and see actual people saying it so this time it’s harder. It’s not like arguing for god, for some reason this is harder to ignore. It’s like I can’t enjoy anything without the thought interrupting my mind with (this isn’t real or “this world is an illusion”). It’s even beginning to feel like it is, but that’s more like my imagination ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/92 "2019-05-15T22:58:15Z")
**Machinaforce** , Nava was right: the problem isn’t with Buddhism. It’s not even with pseudo-Buddhism. It’s within you. You’re seeing everything through this distorting filter your mind has created. Your inability to let go, your admitted fear and unhappiness are all you; therefore, you won’t find the answer in Buddhism or any pseudo-Buddhist site. I’ve read and/or participated in some of your previous threads, and they’re all variations on this same theme. This has gone on long enough. If you can’t afford a therapist, many offer sliding payment scales. Some therapists have a background in Buddhism; I think that’d be ideal for you. And giving up on therapists because one was bad is like giving up on marriage because one blind date went sour. Get help. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/93 "2019-05-15T23:08:27Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Curiosity is a burden and interesting for me. It’s just that I get stuck on stuff that scares me like “this world is an illusion” or “nothing that changes or appears is real”. Not only does it make no sense at all to me but the fact that someone said or believes it drives me made because I want to know what they know. Someone _said_ it, and so that drives you mad and gets you stuck? If I _say_ I have a magic sword and therefore can tell you to stop obsessing over this stuff, can I thereby get a big fine thankful dose of full and unwavering focus from you? > [@](#): > > The sad thing is that in the face of such “big” questions, nothing else matters (at least to my mind) because if this isn’t real or is an illusion then there’s no point in doing anything or learning anything about a false world. Why not? If (a) everything you experience is, uh, “illusion” or “a false world”, and (b) you _can_ get to some non-illusory real world where you’d totally get to live out some kind of decidedly different experiences, then, well, okay, I guess; but if all of this is all there _is_ to experience, then calling it “illusion” or “a false world” doesn’t really mean anything, does it? If there’s no other reality, if this is the only reality there is, then isn’t this realm exactly as wonderful as the non-illusory real one you’d be pining for? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/94 "2019-05-15T23:46:50Z")
**The Other Waldo Pepper** has a point - the only reason to dismiss an “illusory” world is if the world is unstable and likely to end at any time. Consider the most common of illusory worlds: fiction. If any book you read had a high chance of suddenly turning blank you wouldn’t bother reading. If your television was prone to suddenly shutting off at any moment you wouldn’t watch TV. But this isn’t the case; the illusory worlds in question stick around long enough for you to get everything out of them that they have to offer, so it’s worth paying attention. Even though you know they’re all completely made up and full of lies, the experience is still fun and fulfilling and worth your time, because you know it’s going to last long enough for the experience to be worth it. Correct me if I’m wrong, but even in your contested understanding of the Buddhist model, the world isn’t getting any less real over time. However real it is now is how real it’s going to stay for the foreseeable future. Even if it actually _is_ merely a giant virtual reality game, well, it’s one that you’ll be playing for years to come so you might as well _play it_. And it’s a massively multiplayer game too - so you might as well get to know the other players, and spend time with them if playing the game (that is, living life) is more fun when done together. Again, to reiterate: Unreality is only a problem if it means reality might get yanked out from under you, rendering your time spent on it wasted. By all accounts getting outside of reality the Buddhist way isn’t something that’s going to happen by accident, so don’t worry about it! Play the game, earn lots of happiness points, avoid hunger, debt, and homelessness hazards, and just have fun! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/95 "2019-05-15T23:49:06Z")
You should get your life advice from things that people have said in 1980s sitcom theme songs.: The world don’t move from the beat of just one drum–what might be right for you might not be right for some. You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life. According to our new arrival life is more than mere survival–we just might live the good life yet. Don’t waste another minute on your cryin’. They will tell you you can’t sleep alone in a strange place. Then they’ll tell you you can’t sleep with somebody else. But sooner or later you sleep in your own space. Either way it’s okay you wake up with yourself. There’s a path you take and a path untaken the choice is up to you my friend. These lyrics writers have no less insight into the nature of humanity than Buddhist scholars. So if something they say disturbs you, tell it “Yo, Holmes, smell you later!”. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/96 "2019-05-16T04:41:23Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > **The Other Waldo Pepper** has a point - the only reason to dismiss an “illusory” world is if the world is unstable and likely to end at any time. Consider the most common of illusory worlds: fiction. If any book you read had a high chance of suddenly turning blank you wouldn’t bother reading. If your television was prone to suddenly shutting off at any moment you wouldn’t watch TV. But this isn’t the case; the illusory worlds in question stick around long enough for you to get everything out of them that they have to offer, so it’s worth paying attention. Even though you know they’re all completely made up and full of lies, the experience is still fun and fulfilling and worth your time, because you know it’s going to last long enough for the experience to be worth it. > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but even in your contested understanding of the Buddhist model, the world isn’t getting any less real over time. However real it is now is how real it’s going to stay for the foreseeable future. Even if it actually _is_ merely a giant virtual reality game, well, it’s one that you’ll be playing for years to come so you might as well _play it_. And it’s a massively multiplayer game too - so you might as well get to know the other players, and spend time with them if playing the game (that is, living life) is more fun when done together. > > Again, to reiterate: Unreality is only a problem if it means reality might get yanked out from under you, rendering your time spent on it wasted. By all accounts getting outside of reality the Buddhist way isn’t something that’s going to happen by accident, so don’t worry about it! Play the game, earn lots of happiness points, avoid hunger, debt, and homelessness hazards, and just have fun! Unfortunately someone tried that game analogy with me when I struggled briefly with solipsism but it only made things worse. Seeing it as a game just trivializes everything I do. It would still mean that I am living a lie as well. I guess that’s the part that gets me the most, that I am not correct and true and living a lie and all that I thought I knew wasn’t even right. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/97 "2019-05-16T05:07:42Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Someone _said_ it, and so that drives you mad and gets you stuck? If I _say_ I have a magic sword and therefore can tell you to stop obsessing over this stuff, can I thereby get a big fine thankful dose of full and unwavering focus from you? > > Why not? If (a) everything you experience is, uh, “illusion” or “a false world”, and (b) you _can_ get to some non-illusory real world where you’d totally get to live out some kind of decidedly different experiences, then, well, okay, I guess; but if all of this is all there _is_ to experience, then calling it “illusion” or “a false world” doesn’t really mean anything, does it? If there’s no other reality, if this is the only reality there is, then isn’t this realm exactly as wonderful as the non-illusory real one you’d be pining for? Well I can easily dismiss a magic sword because there is no such thing. As for the nature of reality… ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/98 "2019-05-16T06:03:11Z")
Look, if all that exists is in your consciousness, then those Buddhists and their teachings that you have been listenung to are not real. They are all in your imagination. And having an imagination is wrong, so stop imagining up Buddhism. Also, you are imagining this message board. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/99 "2019-05-16T07:48:44Z")
Maybe you need to try another religion (a quick shudder at the thought of trying religion, but it is not a permanent commitment). The other posts have explained very well what Buddhism is, maybe your version of it is incomplete. Or you are going through the Buddhist version of the dark night of the soul, which is part of all religions. I get the feeling that you are looking for a religion of some kind, and that’s fine by me and everybody else. Perhaps you need to analyze what you are looking for? And, these days religion is increasingly becoming synhretic and not bound to any open version of a particular religion, or or indeed, of any one religion. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878/100 "2019-05-16T10:30:44Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well I can easily dismiss a magic sword because there is no such thing. Please elaborate: _how_ can you so easily dismiss a magic sword? Because, see, you explained that your problem with stuff like “this world is an illusion” or “nothing that changes or appears is real” is just — as you put it — the fact that someone _said_ it, which drives you mad. So how can you dismiss stuff like “magic swords are real” given, once again, the fact that someone said it? Just lay out for me how you manage to get this right on _some_ occasions, and maybe that’ll help you figure out how to can get it right on _other_ occasions. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > As for the nature of reality… Uh, yes? “As for the nature of reality”, dot dot dot, _what?_ Here I am, in a world of appearances — where there _seem_ to be walls that it _seems_ I can’t ghost through, but there _seem_ to be doors and I _seem_ able to open them; and that _seems_ to prove useful when I _seem_ to feel hunger, because I _seem_ to make my way to what _seems_ to be food, and it _seems_ to taste delicious sure as it _seems_ to work on what _seems_ to be pain in my belly — and if someone told me all of that was an illusion, then, dot dot dot, what? Will that info let me ghost through the walls, which aren’t _really_ there? Will I learn of _real_ doors I can _really_ open, possibly to get _real_ food that’ll _really_ taste delicious? Or will I not _really_ need food then, as I’ll know the seeming pain in my belly isn’t _real?_ What do you think _really_ happens if all of our experiences here are, for the sake of argument, revealed to be illusory appearances? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-feels-like-a-chain-for-me/833878.md?page=6)