# Buddhism is little more than Nihilism **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 19, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177 "2018-07-19T00:51:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/41 "2018-07-23T05:08:51Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > My ideas aren’t misguided but rather show the flaws in their philosophy. Well then by all means, don’t let the facts get in your way. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/42 "2018-07-24T00:52:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And your proclamations are blatantly wrong even by normal real world reasoning. If a psychopath harms someone, he opens himself up to revenge and the justice system. If he does something low grade, he is still lowering himself in other people’s view and reduces his chances of social advancement. Even if he doesn’t suffer emotionally. Even if you ignore karma. > > I really can’t understand how someone so into this stuff would think such superficial arguments are useful. You clearly don’t understand the mental view of psychopaths then. In your case it would just be others view of him, but he himself is not diminished in any way. They are fine with it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/43 "2018-07-24T01:08:15Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > My ideas aren’t misguided but rather show the flaws in their philosophy. > > If there is no inherent good or bad, any morality is based (essentially) on subjectivity. Buddhism for some reason seems to think there are “good” and “bad” actions or karma, when really it’s just based on perspective. Ultimately we cannot say why something is good. > > Indra’s net is full of holes. hurting you diminishes me in no way whatsoever, you can even use psychopaths as an example. They literally don’t suffer from hurting others. They might have gotten that way through past experience, or genetics, in that case the Net might work. But in the case of them hurting others, they aren’t diminished in any way. Not to mention that is a claim they cannot prove. PLus the whole reflection bit does lose out when you have to find the origin of everything which would then result in infinite regress. It’s the same problem people have when they cite God as the uncaused cause. > > For a religion that advocates questioning they dont do it enough to themselves. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > You clearly don’t understand the mental view of psychopaths then. In your case it would just be others view of him, but he himself is not diminished in any way. They are fine with it. Buddhism itself defines good and bad for the purposes of Buddhism. It doesn’t so far as I can tell expect that unreformed psychopaths are going to find it an attractive or useful philosophy. Buddhism is ultimately about self-improvement. It doesn’t offer a comprehensive program for reforming everyone around you. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/44 "2018-07-24T01:12:39Z")
Anyway, how is any of that relevant to your claim of nihilism? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/45 "2018-07-24T01:43:30Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Ok. But how do you refer to practicing Buddhists such as [Robert Wright](https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/8/23/16179044/buddhism-meditation-mindfulness-robert-wright-interview), who take a pass on the reincarnation concept? There are a fair number of them after all. Doesn’t really address the moral question (no buddhist does). Also too much woo with regards to “consciousness and transformation”. I think they also automatically assume that one would lead to another (ie, the dissolving of the self would make you a better person). Truth is that it doesn’t. Me being aware of others does not mean I care about them. Not to mention our moral code is based on there being “other people”. If everything is just one “ocean” then there goes empathy, love, compassion. Sure you have peace, but that might not be good for humans. Suffering motivates us to take action. It seems to me that the more this practice goes on the more trouble humans are in. Ultimately it isn’t Buddhism but just the watered down bits. The links in my first post get at what it really is. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/46 "2018-07-24T01:46:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Anyway, how is any of that relevant to your claim of nihilism? Because of things being inherently empty and nihilism says there is no inherent meaning in life. Buddhism does a good job of making present existence seem undesirable so as to motivate one to not be reborn into it. If you take out reincarnation or karma then you don’t have buddhism, and those who say otherwise are likely lying. The irony of saying that Buddhism is “self-improvement” is that the state they seek (nonduality) involves there being no such thing as better or worse. SO they are a bit of a hypocrite in preaching improvement (which is another subjective word, one could argue that following the philosophy would lead to the end of humans). ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/47 "2018-07-24T02:20:58Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > You clearly don’t understand the mental view of psychopaths then. In your case it would just be others view of him, but he himself is not diminished in any way. They are fine with it. Why are you ignoring my plain English? He is diminished in concrete ways, as I said, despite his feelings and despite the concept of karma. Buddhism doesn’t hold itself as a moral code, despite it being looked at that way by many. It’s more like a way to swim in a current even if some of its rules line up with some moral codes. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/48 "2018-07-25T00:09:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why are you ignoring my plain English? He is diminished in concrete ways, as I said, despite his feelings and despite the concept of karma. Buddhism doesn’t hold itself as a moral code, despite it being looked at that way by many. It’s more like a way to swim in a current even if some of its rules line up with some moral codes. He is not diminished in concrete ways, I’m sorry. As I have said, you don’t get the mind of a psychopath. Perhaps from your perspective you might think so, but not to them. That’s really all that matters. Especially if one goes down in infamy then they are really not diminished. It’s a matter of perspective and what matters is their own. Sorry, but Buddhism is wrong on that one. Also their version of “swimming in a current” can be callous without morality to guide it, and the philosophy sort of works against any solid version of good or bad. If people seriously followed it then the results would likely not bode well for humans since (according to the link) we would be trading away what helped us survive. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/49 "2018-07-25T01:50:51Z")
It’s fine if Buddhism doesn’t appeal to you but you really shpuld stop declaring you’ve spotted all these inconsistencies and lack of introspection. You are clearly working with superficial knowledge and close to no understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/50 "2018-07-26T03:10:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s fine if Buddhism doesn’t appeal to you but you really shpuld stop declaring you’ve spotted all these inconsistencies and lack of introspection. You are clearly working with superficial knowledge and close to no understanding. People keep saying that but have nothing to show for it. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/51 "2018-07-26T10:10:24Z")
It’s easy to be opinionated, being informed takes a little more effort. At times being _only_ opinionated can announce how uninformed one is. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/52 "2018-07-31T20:03:54Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > My ideas aren’t misguided but rather show the flaws in their philosophy. > [@Telemark](#): > > Based on previous threads you’ve started, I suspect you don’t understand Nihilism and I know you don’t understand Buddhism. My apologies if this is a side-track or hi-jack, but I don’t follow the postings of \*\*MachinaForce \*\*closely enough to have discerned a pattern. Is this guy’s habit that he tends to post critical reviews of various religions, that he likes to study and discuss the existentialist philosophies, or that he’s repeatedly trying to say, “My faith is better than [whatever alternative] because…” Or is there some other kind of game he plays around here? Because I’m gleaning from various responses that some of you have tried to correct this guy’s interpretations in previous threads (which I have not read) and some of you are rather tired of the seeming futility of trying. If \*\*MachinaForce \*\*is really trying to discuss and understand then it’s worth trying to help him comprehend; if he’s just Baiting the Believers and playing at being dumb, then there’s really no sense in even pretending to try to educate him. I ask only because I’d rather not waste the (virtual) ink on a response if his game is just to be antagonistic. Convincing True Believers that their devotion is undeserved is a fools errand and, while critics are quick to point out flaws and inconsistencies, they typically lack the ability to suggest compensatory ideas or corrections, much less alternative approaches. On the other hand, if he’s really trying to learn and just happens to be way off-base, a response or two might be worthwhile. –G! ---
**Author:** ![ebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@ebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ebb)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/53 "2018-07-31T21:58:50Z")
As I understand it, the central message of Buddhism is “every man for himself”. I’m not sure how that’s nihilistic. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/54 "2018-08-02T18:10:02Z")
Buddhists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/55 "2018-12-01T21:11:53Z")
It just seems to me that much of the buddhist teachings don’t seem to follow to compassion as the end result or even involve it as a component of the teachings. I get that there is no separate, independent, and enduring self, that’s obvious. The bit about suffering caused by desire is a bit iffy overall, but I can wrap my head around it. But it doesn’t really explain why one must stop suffering. If you want to see reality as it really is, empty of our perceptions, would that not mean losing compassion and being indifferent to suffering? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/56 "2018-12-01T21:35:40Z")
Buddha famously said “the root of all suffering is [ignoring Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21286039&postcount=18)”. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/57 "2018-12-01T22:42:47Z")
This isn’t really related to that, I think. It’s more like the more I read about Buddhist faith the more it seems like compassion is just shoehorned into there. Other stuff I can reasonably consider, but I can’t quite figure how they cram that in there. I guess the question can be somewhat moral in that they to have compassion and loving kindness but don’t accurately answer why. Not to mention that there seems to be too much value placed on personal experience. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/58 "2018-12-02T00:16:53Z")
Wanda to Otto: “The central message of Buddhism is NOT , ‘every man for himself’!” ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/59 "2018-12-02T06:38:54Z")
I was impressed by how much like a “church” the Buddhist temples in Japan were. You know – pamphlets about the treatment of refugees, notices about blanket collections for welfare, bulletins about the donations to earthquake victims. That kind of thing. It didn’t seem to be incompatible with compassion at all. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177/60 "2018-12-02T08:24:46Z")
Buddhism has multiple major schools with different tenets, it’s unfair to make a blanket statement such a “Compassion seems incompatible with Buddhism” without stating which school and tenets you’re referring to. Even saying you visited a Japanese Buddhist temple is too broad a stoke since Japanese Buddhism has several major schools of thought/belief. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-is-little-more-than-nihilism/818177.md?page=4)