# Buddhism: one more thing to worry about **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421 "2010-01-25T21:03:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/21 "2010-01-26T15:23:16Z")
Since the third of the Four Noble Truths is that the way to free yourself from suffering is to relinquish all attachments, you’re not helping or hurting your cause by not worrying about Buddhism. In fact, you could theoretically achieve nirvana without “being” a Buddhist, and (as your OP intuits) you could keep nirvana out of reach and remain stuck in samsara by worrying about how good a Buddhist you are. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/22 "2010-01-26T15:31:12Z")
I love this thread. I would love to continue this as an “Ask the Buddhist” or someone could start another and I guarantee there will be questions. Something about Buddhism really attracts me and it’s not as simple as grasping a fad. When I read about it I do relate, and if I don’t have to worry (or shouldn’t even worry!) about any sort of advancement or supernatural debt I would probably embrace it more. Not that Buddhists are knocking at my door to bring me in to the fold. I’m not looking to be a part of anything or any group anyway. I just want to learn detachment and find that peaceful place. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/23 "2010-01-26T15:51:20Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > The idea of sitting still and meditating doesn’t really excite me either. The thing is, once you get into that state, it’s like the most awesomest drug ever. And it’s legal, free, and healthy. The trick is getting into that state. The harder you try, the harder you fail. We humans have an amazing capacity to hang on to stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/24 "2010-01-26T16:08:04Z")
> [@Chicken\_Fingers](#): > > My SO is Vietnamese, and like a majority of Vietnamese, grew up identifying as Buddhist. A big thing I notice with him and other practical Buddhists is that they are very conscious of karma, and try to act in ways that build good karma. I would not call them apathetic and peaceful, though! Ask Pol Pot about how the Vietnamese are easy pickings for dictators, too… ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/25 "2010-01-26T17:10:30Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > AAnyway. Nirvana is either a long way off, and you don’t need to worry about it, or it’s a single breath away, in which case it’s no more pressure than fly fishing\*\*\* Yeah. Obviously it wasn’t my dad who taught you to fly fish. > [@](#): > > Either way, what is cool is there is work in neuroscience and psychology about Buddhism now. They are studying monk’s brains to see how meditation changes things. Interesting stuff. I already flunked out of the world of neuroscience research. I’m sure I accrued at least one lifetime worth of bad karma from all the leeches and frogs I killed in the process, too. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/26 "2010-01-26T17:34:35Z")
From the Zen Buddhist perspective, you are already enlightened. But your grasping mind (which wants to become something other than what you already are) is getting in the way of you realizing that fact! Even grasping after Nirvana is an obstacle. Maybe after a few years of meditation and the guidance of a good teacher, you’ll eventually come to realize that fundamentally there’s nothing to do and nothing to worry about. 🙂 The problem here is putting into words an experience which is free from the confines of all concepts. Any attempt to describe enlightenment will fall short of the goal and not be the whole truth. Those who are careful readers may find what they believe are contradictions in this post. After reading the preceding passage, many will think of Buddhism as simply a way to zone out and not deal with our problems. But nothing can be further from the truth. There are real life problems that do need action to solve, but we must be careful about causing ourselves stress by creating paper tigers or trying to tackle problems that are beyond our ability. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/27 "2010-01-26T19:51:48Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > From the Zen Buddhist perspective, you are already enlightened. > > But your grasping mind (which wants to become something other than what you already are) is getting in the way of you realizing that fact! Even grasping after Nirvana is an obstacle. Maybe after a few years of meditation and the guidance of a good teacher, you’ll eventually come to realize that fundamentally there’s nothing to do and nothing to worry about. 🙂 > > The problem here is putting into words an experience which is free from the confines of all concepts. Any attempt to describe enlightenment will fall short of the goal and not be the whole truth. Those who are careful readers may find what they believe are contradictions in this post. > > After reading the preceding passage, many will think of Buddhism as simply a way to zone out and not deal with our problems. But nothing can be further from the truth. There are real life problems that do need action to solve, but we must be careful about causing ourselves stress by creating paper tigers or trying to tackle problems that are beyond our ability. Fundamentally, from a Zen point of view, reaching that sort of quiet harmony with everything (satori) is only half of the journey. You fee like you’ve done so much work and climbed to the top of a metaphorical pole, and then your teacher tells you that when you’re at the top of the pole you have to let go and keep climbing, so to speak, until you’ve even lost your attachment to that sense of detachment and can just go through your daily life while being at one and at peace with it all. On top of that, the highest respect goes to those who go about reducing the overall suffering in this world–(Zen) Buddhism that is sterile and confined to a monastery is dead and of no use to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/28 "2010-01-27T03:40:12Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > IMHO, The problem with Buddhism in the west is the long road between hearing about Buddhism and actually getting to learn something about it. There is Buddhist canon, there are various branches of the religion, some of which are superficially contradictory, and then all of their ideas taken out of context and swished around, and then there is a huge cloud of western interpretations, surrounded by Buddhisty-sounding ideas and phrases ('cause “it’s better to accept than to understand” just sounds, like, deep, dude). Someone who wants to learn more about the religion, has to dig through a mountain of crap\*\*. So well put. When I first started exploring religions, I read about Buddhism and observed Buddhist forums for months. The Buddhist paradigm is just so completely different than what we are accustomed to in the Western world that it took me a loooong time to even begin to grasp the basic concepts. Especially Zen. Zen is so freaking confusing. And then, one day, I sat down to meditate. ‘‘Oh.’’ :smack: I’ll go start that thread if it hasn’t been started already. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/29 "2010-01-27T03:55:58Z")
All right, ‘‘[Ask The Buddhist](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=549629)’’ Thread is up and running! ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/30 "2010-01-30T18:39:38Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > We used to have a member here named **Tao Jones**. Unfortunately, none of his posts were above average. 😉 \ ***Skylark** throws tomatoes at **Polycarp**. > [@Zeriel](#): > > Fundamentally, from a Zen point of view, reaching that sort of quiet harmony with everything (satori) is only half of the journey. You fee like you’ve done so much work and climbed to the top of a metaphorical pole, and then your teacher tells you that when you’re at the top of the pole you have to let go and keep climbing, so to speak, until you’ve even lost your attachment to that sense of detachment and can just go through your daily life while being at one and at peace with it all. That reminds me of a part of Jack Kerouac’s _Dharma Bums_. It turns out, Jack Kerouac didn’t know anything about Buddhism, but they through enough words in there. Or, maybe, as the prologue argued, Kerouac was actually writing about his Christianity the whole time (or both?). I don’t know. Maybe. Lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-yous. And, uh, lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder’s head. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421/31 "2010-02-01T17:47:07Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > My (extremely limited) understanding of Buddhism is that each individual soul needs to go through several cycles of life, death, and reincarnation before reaching Nirvana. During each lifetime, an individual may move up through several steps on the eight-fold path. One who does so successfully gets reincarnated as an individual who can then tackle the next few steps. Unless you happened to get reincarnated as a monk (which I presume you did not), you’re not expected to reach Nirvana in this lifetime. Buddhists generally don’t believe in souls. I think you’re describing a set of Hindu-like beliefs. Some buddhists believe in something like reincarnation but it’s more complicated. It’s usually referred to as “rebirth” or samsara. Of course, if there is not permanent soul, what’s reborn? And if there is no permanent entity, why do non-Western buddhists talk about the different dimensions like hells and devas and coming back as a fox, etc? These may just be sort of allegorical but many Eastern Buddhists take it seriously. The big thing about rebirth is “dependent co-arising” which brings about cycles of “ignorance, mental formation, consciousness, name and form, the six senses, contact, feeling, craving, clinging, becoming, birth, and old age and death”. Nirvana is the cessation of this cycle and suffering. Karma is linked to this because our actions or even no-actions bring consequences that continue the cycle. Brad Warner, author of a fun zen book called, “Hardcore Zen” uses a common metaphor for this. We are waves in an ocean. We are not separate, nor are we permanent. Something appears to be ‘born’ then ‘dies’ but not really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddhism-one-more-thing-to-worry-about/526421.md?page=1)