# Buddy Holly, 50 Years Later **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338 "2009-02-04T00:54:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/21 "2009-02-04T22:06:58Z")
Another fan checking in. The plane crash was the first big music loss for my generation, and we all remember where we were when we heard about it (band class for me). Maybe some of the music historians in this thread can help me with this. I remember hearing (or reading) that “people” (critics? his band? his fans? don’t know) were unhappy with the direction his music was taking, based on all the strings in _Raining in My Heart_. Anyone know if that’s true? Was Buddy going more middle-of-the-road or was he just experimenting? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/22 "2009-02-04T22:53:14Z")
They had quite a show in Clear Lake, Iowa, [2/2/2009:](http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/rock-vets-remember-the-day-the-music-died-1003937412.story) > [@](#): > > Fifty years after Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper played their final gig at the Surf Ballroom in Clear Lake, Iowa, the Day the Music Died became the Day the Music Went On and On. > > Last night’s tribute concert at the original Surf raved on for six hours with a contingent of rock vets that seemed as criss-crossed as the original Winter Dance Party tour itinerary, including Graham Nash, Los Lobos, Los Lonely Boys, Wanda Jackson, Delbert McClinton, Joe Ely, Peter & Gordon, Dave Mason, Bobby Vee and Holly’s original bandmates, the Crickets. The picture with the article shows Joe Ely & Los Lobos. A combination guaranteed to warm things up on a very cold night… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/23 "2009-02-04T23:21:06Z")
I met a woman years ago who said when Buddy died all the girls in her convent school were crying and one of the nuns was heard to exclaim “Who in the world is Biddy Holly?” Anyone ever seen [Six String Samurai](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118736/)? It’s a great idea, not so well executed. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/24 "2009-02-04T23:36:24Z")
I’m just still in awe when I look over the list of songs that Buddy Holly wrote that were fantastic. His catalog is as good as some of the top musicians of all time. And he was 22 when he died. 22! Unreal. Hard to speculate what would have become of him had he lived. Maybe he would have cranked out 50 more fantastic songs and been the best musician ever. Maybe the times would have changed in the 60s and he wouldn’t have been able to adapt. I’m leaning towards the former. The man was a genius. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/25 "2009-02-04T23:37:37Z")
> [@Ro0sh](#): > > My favorite Greatful Dead live song was “Not Fade Away”. I have 3-4 different versions of that song, and I love it to death each and every version of it, because of the lyrics and just how earnest and fun that song can be. > > And then lo and behold one day, I discovered that it was actually a Buddy Holly Cover. > I’ve never heard the Buddy Holly Version, but I think I’ll go listen to that one now. Well, of course The Stones had a major hit with “Not Fade Away” too. Holly was a huge influence on the early Beatles. I think they went on to influence a few other bands afterwards. ETA: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/26 "2009-02-04T23:39:06Z")
Buddy Holly’s songs - which were great, I’d like to say - were all just a little bit _off_ somehow; I don’t really know how to explain it, but I think it helps account for his enduring popularity (and rightly so). There’s some kind of mystique there, even without the fact that he died so early. There’s something about his work - like much of The Beatles’ stuff - that keeps it from getting old. I’ve always thought Marshall Crenshaw was a similar songwriter, and not just because of the obvious similarities in appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/27 "2009-02-04T23:58:46Z")
This view is probably controversial among Holly fans - but I don’t think he would have been a rocker for very long had he lived. His music was trending towards sheer pop (including lush string arrangments). I can see him surviving the rock n’ roll dead zone of 59-63 quite handily with ballads, only to be killed off by the Beatles and the rest of the British invasion - eventually going on to produce other artists successfully. He might have wound up in the mold of Neil Sedaka (cringe). The other possibility is that he would have returned to country roots and done a Charlie Rich. Speaking as someone who likes and respects Holly’s music, I think he died at exactly the right time to become a rock n’ roll legend. As for the others, I see Valens as a short-term phenomenon and the Bopper as essentially a one-hit wonder. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/28 "2009-02-05T00:11:33Z")
I saw that movie… One of the wierdest and trippiest movies I’ve seen in a while. I don’t know if I’d watch it again. But i do agree- it SOUNDS like a great idea on paper and the character does look badass… But watching it? Not so much. Though I did like Death and the whole… feel of it. But it def. could have been better. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/29 "2009-02-05T00:14:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > This view is probably controversial among Holly fans - but I don’t think he would have been a rocker for very long had he lived. > > His music was trending towards sheer pop (including lush string arrangments). I can see him surviving the rock n’ roll dead zone of 59-63 quite handily with ballads, only to be killed off by the Beatles and the rest of the British invasion - eventually going on to produce other artists successfully. He might have wound up in the mold of Neil Sedaka (cringe). > > The other possibility is that he would have returned to country roots and done a Charlie Rich. > > Speaking as someone who likes and respects Holly’s music, I think he died at exactly the right time to become a rock n’ roll legend. > > As for the others, I see Valens as a short-term phenomenon and the Bopper as essentially a one-hit wonder. Again, he was TWENTY TWO when he died! No artist is anywhere near their peak at 22, and he already had a monster catalog at that point. While it is hard to speculate where his career might have gone, comparing him to Neil Sedaka is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/30 "2009-02-05T00:54:22Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > Again, he was TWENTY TWO when he died! No artist is anywhere near their peak at 22, and he already had a monster catalog at that point. I suggested he would have been successful for quite awhile. What I _don’t_ think is that his hits would have been rock n’ roll. You have to remember that starting about 1959, the rock n’ roll greats (who were also quite young) were either slumping, in the Army or dead. Holly likely had the tools to adapt better than people like Chuck Berry, Little Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis, who stayed with the styles with which they’d been successful (or in Little Richard’s case, found religion). > [@](#): > > While it is hard to speculate where his career might have gone, comparing him to Neil Sedaka is nonsense. I wasn’t making the comparison talent-wise, but indicating that Holly might similarly have gone pop and then concentrated on producing other acts. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/31 "2009-02-05T00:54:33Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > Again, he was TWENTY TWO when he died! No artist is anywhere near their peak at 22 Oh really? > **[Ride the Lightning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ride_the_lightning)** > > Ride the Lightning is the second studio album by the American heavy metal band Metallica, released on July 27, 1984, by the independent record label Megaforce Records. The album was recorded in three weeks with producer Flemming Rasmussen at Sweet Silence Studios in Copenhagen, Denmark. The artwork, based on a concept by the band, depicts an electric chair being struck by lightning flowing from the band logo. The title was taken from a passage in Stephen King's novel The Stand, in which a char... > **[Jagged Little Pill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagged_Little_Pill)** > > Jagged Little Pill is the third studio album by Canadian-American singer Alanis Morissette, released by Maverick on June 13, 1995. Recorded in Hollywood at Westlake with production by Glen Ballard, it was Morissette's first album to be released worldwide. It marks a significant stylistic departure from the dance-pop sound of her first two efforts, Alanis (1991) and Now Is the Time (1992). She began work on the album after moving from her hometown Ottawa to Los Angeles, where she met Ballard. T... > **[Definitely Maybe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitely_Maybe)** > > Definitely Maybe is the debut studio album by the English rock band Oasis, released on 29 August 1994 by Creation Records. The album features Noel Gallagher on lead guitar, backing vocals and as chief songwriter, Liam Gallagher on lead vocals, Paul "Bonehead" Arthurs on rhythm guitar, Paul "Guigsy" McGuigan on bass guitar and Tony McCarroll on drums. > The band booked Monnow Valley Studio near Rockfield in January 1994 to record the album; they worked with producer Dave Batchelor, whom Noel Gal... > **[Paranoid (album)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_(album))** > > Paranoid is the second studio album by the British heavy metal band Black Sabbath. It was released on 18 September 1970 in the United Kingdom by Vertigo Records, and on 7 January 1971 in the United States by Warner Bros. Records. The album contains several of the band's signature songs, including "Iron Man", "War Pigs" and the title track, which was the band's only top 20 hit, reaching number four on the UK Singles Chart. The title track reached No. 1 on the US Billboard Hot Hard Rock Songs fo... > **[Talking Book](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Book)** > > Talking Book is the fifteenth studio album by American singer, songwriter, and musician Stevie Wonder, released on October 27, 1972, by Tamla, a subsidiary of Motown Records. This album and Music of My Mind, released earlier the same year, are generally considered to mark the start of Wonder's "classic period". The sound of the album is sharply defined by Wonder's use of keyboards and synthesizers. > The album peaked at number three on the Billboard Top LPs chart and finished at number three on ... ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/32 "2009-02-05T01:21:08Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > Oh really? > [Definitely Maybe - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitely_Maybe) Noel Gallagher wasn’t 22 when this came out and also their subsequent album was their peak IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/33 "2009-02-05T01:25:06Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > Oh really? > > [Ride the Lightning - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ride_the_lightning) > [Jagged Little Pill - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagged_Little_Pill) > [Definitely Maybe - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitely_Maybe) > [Paranoid (album) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_(album)) > [Talking Book - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Book) 1. Master of Puppets is a better album. 2. I’d call this a bump rather than a peak. 3. I’m no Oasis fan but I think most people would say that (What’s the Story) Morning Glory is a better album. 4. touche 5. You could argue Stevie for hours. I think a lot of people would go with Songs in the Key of Life. Either way, I certainly wouldn’t say he peaked with Talking Book. He had 5 straight albums that were fantastic, and this was only #2 in that sequence. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/34 "2009-02-05T01:30:56Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Noel Gallagher wasn’t 22 when this came out and also their subsequent album was their peak IMHO. Oh yeah, this was a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/35 "2009-02-05T01:36:14Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > 1. Master of Puppets is a better album. > 2. I’d call this a bump rather than a peak. > 3. I’m no Oasis fan but I think most people would say that (What’s the Story) Morning Glory is a better album. > 4. touche > 5. You could argue Stevie for hours. I think a lot of people would go with Songs in the Key of Life. Either way, I certainly wouldn’t say he peaked with Talking Book. He had 5 straight albums that were fantastic, and this was only #2 in that sequence. I listed what were my favorite albums by these bands, but yeah, obviously it is debatable. Anyway, even if you consider later albums better, I think we can agree that they are not markedly better. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/36 "2009-02-05T01:43:11Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > I listed what were my favorite albums by these bands, but yeah, obviously it is debatable. Anyway, even if you consider later albums better, I think we can agree that they are not markedly better. The clear winner from your list was Paranoid. I tried to refute this one, and when I glanced at the tracklist of their subsequent albums it wasn’t even close. I hereby amend my statement to read “Very few artists are at their peak at 22.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/37 "2009-02-05T01:46:21Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > one of the nuns was heard to exclaim “Who in the world is Biddy Holly?” He’s a forerunner to Fuddy Cent. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/38 "2009-02-05T03:01:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I suggested he would have been successful for quite awhile. What I _don’t_ think is that his hits would have been rock n’ roll. You have to remember that starting about 1959, the rock n’ roll greats (who were also quite young) were either slumping, in the Army or dead. Holly likely had the tools to adapt better than people like Chuck Berry, Little Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis, who stayed with the styles with which they’d been successful (or in Little Richard’s case, found religion).I wasn’t making the comparison talent-wise, but indicating that Holly might similarly have gone pop and then concentrated on producing other acts. I think he would have survived the 50s with an astonishing body of work. The interesting thing to speculate about would be how would he handle/anticipate the counter culture movement. His geeky, wholesome act wouldn’t have sold in the mid/late 60s, and he would either have to reinvent himself or, as you say, go into producing or something. I honestly can’t say I know enough about the guy to do more than guess. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/39 "2009-02-05T03:19:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > This view is probably controversial among Holly fans - but I don’t think he would have been a rocker for very long had he lived… > > Speaking as someone who likes and respects Holly’s music, I think he died at exactly the right time to become a rock n’ roll legend. > > As for the others, I see Valens as a short-term phenomenon and the Bopper as essentially a one-hit wonder. Absolutely, on all three counts. When he was coming up, R&R was not a longterm career path. Being the next Sinatra was. Elvis took the same path. And like Elvis, dying was a “good career move,” words that I first uttered when Jim Croce died and again when Elvis died. Valens was a nickle rocket. There were limits on how successful a Hispanic who wasn’t much of a singer could be in 1959. Trini “Zzzzzzzzzzzz” Lopez tried it a few years later with a better voice and had more success. The Big Bopper was a novelty act. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338/40 "2009-02-05T03:50:12Z")
Another thought I just had - Beatlemania would have been good for his career too, since most of their early stuff owed a lot to him. That would have bought him at least an extra year or two. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buddy-holly-50-years-later/484338.md?page=3)