# Buffalo can’t become a Lion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013 "2010-11-09T08:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Abisafyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@Abisafyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abisafyan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/141 "2010-11-14T13:21:14Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Oh, sure, count on the Israeli to point that one out. Except you the whole world knows, war with Israel was not war with Israel alone that was/is actually war with US, EU & the (late) USSR. If you don’t believe, the moment US severed relation with Israel that will be the last moment for Israel to breathe the last. Hamas alone will settle the score; even Hizballah will needn’t to join the course!!! ---
**Author:** ![Abisafyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@Abisafyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abisafyan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/142 "2010-11-14T13:32:55Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > For what it’s worth, Wikipedia gives a list of national emblems: > > India – Lion Capital of Asoka (National Emblem of India), Bengal Tiger (national animal), Peacock (national bird), King Cobra (national reptile), Gangetic River Dolphin (national aquatic animal), Lotus (national flower). Alone a veg animal may be adopted as her national emblem by India. India must not foul play everywhere!!! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/143 "2010-11-14T13:55:17Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > Except you the whole world knows, war with Israel was not war with Israel alone that was/is actually war with US, EU & the (late) USSR. If you don’t believe, the moment US severed relation with Israel that will be the last moment for Israel to breathe the last. Hamas alone will settle the score; even Hizballah will needn’t to join the course!!! Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/144 "2010-11-14T13:58:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Cite? Aw, come on Alessan, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/145 "2010-11-14T14:05:44Z")
I know, I know. I’m sorry for pulling this thread even more off track. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/146 "2010-11-14T15:39:38Z")
nevermind ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/147 "2010-11-14T15:50:31Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > Except you the whole world knows, war with Israel was not war with Israel alone that was/is actually war with US, EU & the (late) USSR. If you don’t believe, the moment US severed relation with Israel that will be the last moment for Israel to breathe the last. Hamas alone will settle the score; even Hizballah will needn’t to join the course!!! This is why we can’t have nice things. You understand that, right? So, what’s the big deal? We got a tiny little tiger and a big honking buffalo that can kick the shit out of it. You trying to say there’s something wrong with being a buffalo? ---
**Author:** ![Abisafyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@Abisafyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abisafyan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/148 "2010-11-14T16:21:53Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > You trying to say there’s something wrong with being a buffalo? At no time. Please see things in real context. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/149 "2010-11-14T16:37:16Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > Engrave in your mind for ever; that Muslims have never ever fought against smaller and weak enemies in terms of men & means throughout the history. > Muslims have never ever outnumbered the enemy in terms of men & means, nonetheless Muslims have won almost all the wars in the past. Go through history. The Straight Dope is an American slang expression meaning correct information. Your comment, here, is utterly false. You probably need to go to a different source for your historical information. Muslims, (like most conquerors), prefer to attack with larger armies and have often attacked smaller, weaker nations. In those attacks, they have not always been successful. See, for example, the Ottoman invasions of Europe in which 23,000 Christian Europeans defeated a siege by 120,000 Muslim Turks and allies in 1529 and, again, in 1683, when over 150,000 Muslim Turks were defeated by a Christian European coalition of 84,000. Then there are the wars between Muslims such as those in which Muslim Timur-e Lang/Tamerlane defeated the Muslim Golden Horde. At this point, you appear to have no serious point to debate and if all you are going to do is hurl more silly insults at Indians while making erroneous claims about history, I will probably shut this thread down as a waste of effort before it degenerates into name calling. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/150 "2010-11-14T16:39:50Z")
But Tom, you are forgetting the Israeli wars, in which the Muslims have always been heavily outnumbered and yet always won. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/151 "2010-11-14T17:10:12Z")
One Muslim is worth five Hindus, you know. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/152 "2010-11-14T18:43:03Z")
Is that the exchange rate these days? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/153 "2010-11-14T18:45:52Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Is that the exchange rate these days? Well, ever since they stopped making the Hindu out of real sterling, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/154 "2010-11-14T20:43:41Z")
It’s debatable that Muslims produce especially good warriors, but there can be no argument that they produce terrible soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/155 "2010-11-14T22:46:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s debatable that Muslims produce especially good warriors, but there can be no argument that they produce terrible soldiers. WTF are you talking about? Islam turned the Arabs from a self destructive rabble to an empire in less than a few generations. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/156 "2010-11-14T22:47:52Z")
I think he means soldiers in the sense of modern troops, as opposed to the “warriors” of medieval times. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/157 "2010-11-14T22:49:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think he means soldiers in the sense of modern troops, as opposed to the “warriors” of medieval times. Ha ok, but he would then still get it wrong. Muslims were part of France’s top troops when they still had a colonial empire. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/158 "2010-11-14T23:06:55Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > WTF are you talking about? Islam turned the Arabs from a self destructive rabble to an empire in less than a few generations. I’ll now be adding “self-destructive rabble” to my list of descriptors for modern Muslim nations. And your example regarding France doesn’t hurt my claim at all. Those soldiers were trained by the French, not by other Muslims. Who are the elite soldiers of any Muslim nation, produced solely by that nation, and how do they stack up against the special forces of the various westernized nations? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/159 "2010-11-14T23:12:04Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Well, ever since they stopped making the Hindu out of real sterling, yeah. The important question is how much will each bison dollar be worth? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013/160 "2010-11-14T23:40:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll now be adding “self-destructive rabble” to my list of descriptors for modern Muslim nations. And your example regarding France doesn’t hurt my claim at all. Those soldiers were trained by the French, not by other Muslims. Who are the elite soldiers of any Muslim nation, produced solely by that nation, and how do they stack up against the special forces of the various westernized nations? I am not sure why you are pursuing this nonsense, which is about on a par with the nonsense of the OP, but the Turks were considered one of the elite units in the Korean War and I have not encountered any references to them in the ensuing years that were other than respectful of their tenacity and tactics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffalo-can-t-become-a-lion/560013.md?page=9)