# Buffy 01/07/03 Showtime \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 6, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037 "2003-01-06T23:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/21 "2003-01-08T14:25:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrMyth \* > And if Buffy wakes up in a mental ward at the end, I’m going to hunt Joss down and beat the seven years of my life he took right out of him. \*\* Amen!!! ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/22 "2003-01-08T14:30:00Z")
Found last night’s show very interesting in that I liked the story, but really disliked a bunch of things about the show. Everyone has already mentioned the crap slayerettes. My first thought was, “Why would they be unable to find any better actresses?” But thinking of the general incredibly high quality of the show, I started to wonder if there was a reason for them portraying them so annoyingly. Yes, Buff had to grow into being a slayer. But IMO a gaggle of them was a little gag-inducing. I have never been a big fan of the neandervamp. Just doesn’t LOOK that scary. Something about how he holds his hands, and his posture. No facial expressions or utterances other than one snarl. And the inconsistencey between how he often seems so awkward walking along, but then busts some incredible moves while fighting. Maybe the guy they originally made the costume for quit … And the strings holding up the tails of the eyeball were pretty unforgiveable. With the final fight with the vamp - the only things that seemed to hurt it were the holy water and poking him in the eye. So why didn’t she go for his other eye? And the garrotte. Buff had a very awkward grip on it - no leverage, it did not even begin to cut through the skin, and his head simply burst off like a balloon. Perhaps minor points all, but they interefered with my enjoyment. My favorite Andrew line was “Two men enter, one man leaves.” My wife and I were rolling over that one. The kids had no clue. I guess I know what movies we’ll be renting the next coupla weekends! ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/23 "2003-01-08T14:36:46Z")
> [@](#): > > My favorite Andrew line was “Two men enter, one man leaves.” I loved the way Buffy set that line up, too. A geek reference from someone other than Andrew, yay. ---
**Author:** ![Innanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecd19e/32.png) [@Innanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innanna)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/24 "2003-01-08T14:41:12Z")
Not going to spoiler box because most people should have seen it by now… Thought for minute that Anya and Giles were going to use Clem to open the portal. What better use of a friendly demon who seems kinda pliable? But, no Clem. _sigh_ Also telepathy…of a kind… was used in Primeval and in Restless. I’m not sure that you can hang out in other people’s dreams without being telepathic. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/25 "2003-01-08T14:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\* > So. Buffy came back wrong. > What does this lead to?_\* I got the impression the problem wasn’t that the she came back wrong, but the fact that she simply came back. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/26 "2003-01-08T14:55:23Z")
Hm. Whatever plot actually happens at the end of this, I would like to see it spin off into … [wait for it] **The Clem Show!** ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/27 "2003-01-08T15:00:23Z")
I still don’t know why she isn’t carrying the Troll Hammer around all the time. It worked on a God. Übervamp would be smeared as a bug on a windshield. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/28 "2003-01-08T15:04:32Z")
This is confirmed spoilage about an upcoming episode. Not a plot spoiler tho. Clem is due back for a guest spot soon ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/29 "2003-01-08T15:10:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > > And no new Buffy next week **elf**. It’s pre-empted by “UPN’s Funky Flubs” - whatever that is… \*\* ☹ Thanks \*\*The Gaspode \*\* !! ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/30 "2003-01-08T15:22:36Z")
I tuned in late, then my 10 year old would not shut up through out the rest of the show. So, explain a point to me. Why was she finally able to kill Noodles (Ubervamp)? She got the stuffing knocked out of her the first couple of times. What, was she just not determined enough? Wasn’t the right setting, not enough of an audience? And I hated the “southern accent”. When Buffy and Xander come back to the house after finding the body at the Sunspot, “Eve” had to give that little speech, I am sorry, but I just kinda zoned until she stopped talking. Ugh! ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/31 "2003-01-08T15:32:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Glory \* > \*\*The telepathy was established in the beginning of Season 3 when the Scoobies were fighting without Buffy (while she was away being Anne). > > Of course, that was 3 long seasons ago without a telepathic peep! \*\* Er, no. They didn’t use any telepathy then(just walkie-talkies), and in fact they had no idea where she was or what she was doing then until well after she returned to Sunnydale. The earliest thing that was remotely like telephathy was when they channelled the first slayer at the very end of season four. As for the episode, am I the only one who wondered if it was really Buffy at the end who was with Spike? ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/32 "2003-01-08T15:32:42Z")
I am not liking the consistency. First, Willow can’t use magic and Buffy can’t fight UV. Now, they can. What gives? Buffy’s declaration of war? Also, Angel showed us that while vampires with souls lose badassdom, this is just because they are saving up their badass-ness for when it is needed. I wanna see Spike go postal! Also (major cop-out idea) what happens if Buffy kills all the Bringers? They are needed to raise manifestations of the First. No Bringers, no Morphy. It doesn’t matter if the First is if it can’t affect the world at all. ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/33 "2003-01-08T15:37:19Z")
Blech on the accent too. The Ubervamp just seems to me a sad ripoff of Nosferatu in the costume and hunched gait. I sort of liked the discussion between the Slayers-in-Training in the basement; it was interesting to hear them talk about Faith and what it means to be a Slayer. They’re green, for sure, but I don’t think all of them are cannon fodder just yet. That Kennedy’s got some moxie, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/34 "2003-01-08T15:38:51Z")
I figured Buffy freed Spike, b/c TFE supposedly only acts through others, and Buffy used a knife to cut Spike’s bonds. I did not really see why she won this time either. Other than to poke him in the eye (which is pretty much emphasized in any basic self defense class. For example, I recall ETGS/Escape To Gain Safety/Eyes, Throat Groin Shins.) And the bringers surrounded the house “to make sure we don’t leave.” Uh, not too successful. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/35 "2003-01-08T15:49:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I figured Buffy freed Spike, b/c TFE supposedly only acts through others, and Buffy used a knife to cut Spike’s bonds. Not only did she use a knife, but he grasped her shoulder, and then leaned on her as they walked out. If that wasn’t the real Buffy, then he would have fallen right through her. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/36 "2003-01-08T16:18:11Z")
Ubervamps movements reminded me of one of the pimps in the “Night of the Living Pimps” segment in _Hollywood Shuffle_. ---
**Author:** ![Goofus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7feea3/32.png) [@Goofus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goofus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/37 "2003-01-08T18:39:01Z")
I may have read this somewhere else, but I think the Ubervamp was modeled on the little “Grr, argh” cartoon monster that we see at the end of each episode. The resemblance is striking. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/38 "2003-01-08T19:34:06Z")
I don’t get the whole “we brought Buffy back” pathos. That event, as far as we know, had NO Slayer-line repercussions. It was Xander’s original save back in season 1 that spawned a new line of Slayers of which Faith is the current title holder: and the line of succession has been entirely in Kendra and then Faith’s hands, not Buffy’s. My guess is that the problem is not that Buffy died, or even that she was brought back, but that she’s _lived so long_. No slayer has ever gotten _old_ as she has and lived to tell the tale: this has been a pathos plot point since season 1. And it would be a far more interesting wrinkle than this whole bungled death thing. The First seemed like it would be a really kick-ass scary villian when it appeared in the first ep of this Season: something different: not just evil, but truly cunning and deeply involved behind the scenes with the show from the start. Something whose’ designs were not just to do damage and cause pain, but to reveal deep dark dirty secrets from before the world began. But so far, it’s turned out lame, with a series of mostly flubbed attempts at creating a villian of the week and hapazardly killing slayers and so on. It’s character is almost childishly stupid, and it talks like a high school drama nut. If it’s so powerful and unkillable, why not just run around being evil trying to destroy the world all the time? Why wait and wait for this one opportunity to score a big win, instead of amassing some great little ones (I mean, like destroying the world with something akin to what Angel almost did in season 2?) What gives? ---
**Author:** ![A\_wizard\_song\_for\_thee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/46a35a/32.png) [@A\_wizard\_song\_for\_thee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_wizard_song_for_thee)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/39 "2003-01-09T07:05:11Z")
Okay, now, I know Mutant Enemy likes to play fast and loose with continuity and all, but they’ve made a big deal about Giles not touching anyone or anything because they want to lead us in the wrong way (I hope!), but Morphy!Buffy _touched_ Spike this episode! On the brow! And he felt it, because he opened his eyes- er, eye- and looked at her! This kind of sloppiness makes Mr. Gordo cry. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037/40 "2003-01-09T07:27:40Z")
> [@](#): > > That event, as far as we know, had NO Slayer-line repercussions. It was Xander’s original save back in season 1 that spawned a new line of Slayers of which Faith is the current title holder: and the line of succession has been entirely in Kendra and then Faith’s hands, not Buffy’s. I’d love if you could quote me anything from any episode which solidifies this. It is entirely plausible, AFAIK, that there are in fact three slayers right now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-01-07-03-showtime-spoilers/147037.md?page=3)