# Buffy 02/04/03 - The Killer in me (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2003, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674 "2003-02-04T10:37:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/81 "2003-02-05T23:43:04Z")
> [@](#): > > **Ben was human in body but it seems he was made specifically to be the host of Glory.** I never thought that. I always thought that he was chosen because he was born at the right time. and **The Devil’s Grandmother** : That might have been me who pointed out the cheerleader statue. I don’t remember seeing it in an episode, but I remember reading in one of the _Watcher’s Guides_ that it was written into the script. The set dressers were specifically directed to leave the charred-looking trophy lying on the ground of the (former) rubble, so this was either because it is significant, or just to make us ooh and ahh at the continuity (remember continuity? Do ya? _sigh_) Who knows where it is now that Sunnydale High has been rebuilt. And Evil Death, it’s just a tv show. I like to nitpick and analyze as much as the last (incredibly geeky) person, but there is no need to get nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/82 "2003-02-05T23:45:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*You mixed \* Smashed \* and \* Wrecked. \* Demolition fuck is \* Smashed. \* \*\* Beg y’pardon. It’s been a while since I saw S6. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/83 "2003-02-05T23:46:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kung fu lola \* > \*\* > And Evil Death, it’s just a tv show. I like to nitpick and analyze as much as the last (incredibly geeky) person, but there is no need to get nasty. \*\* Nasty? Don’t make me waggle my finger didactically on yo’ ass… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/84 "2003-02-05T23:59:42Z")
Am I the only one here who was turned on by seeing Spike chained to a bed? The only thing that could be better would be _naked_ Spike chained to a bed, totally at my mercy… I really think this season has suffered from a lack of exposed Spikeflesh. I mean, really, only a couple of shirtless eps and the sheet that only covered the important parts in one brief scene in “Sleeper”. Yo, Joss, more Spikeflesh, please. [sub]Thea hopes she gets hired for the job she’s interviewing for tomorrow. She has too much time on her hands since she’s been out of work, and an idle mind is the devil’s porno studio…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/85 "2003-02-06T01:14:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*Sorry if I seem a little short, but your argument is totally inconsistent with past episodes - even if it happens to be right. Which was my original bone of contention with the episode, as you may recall; that it heftily violates continuity. \*\* Oh, c’mon. There’s hardly any Amy continuity at all. She shows up in maybe three episodes per season, tops. Any number of things could have gone on in her life to make her the whacko we saw last night. And every time we see her, she gets progressively more evil. First time we see her, she’s an innocent victim. Next time we see her, she’s using magic to fuck with people’s heads. Then she gets turned into a rodent for two years, comes back, and she’s got all sorts of demon magic-pusher contacts that she apparently cultivated between the Xander love-spell and the attempted burning-at-the-stake. Now she’s outright attacking members of the Scooby gang. Seems to be a pretty clear (although punctuated) character arc to me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/86 "2003-02-06T01:15:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*I should think that statue was destroyed along with the original Sunnydale High. \*\* Actually, now that I think about it, The Scoobies didn’t know where Amy’s mom went, so there’s no reason to believe Amy would know either. I’m a little surprised they didn’t try to make something meaningful over the lost-mom issue. > [@](#): > > \*Also originally posted by Evil Death \* > **The weird bit is that we definitely saw Eve/First with a blanket draped over her…** Well, all the characters we’ve seen who are First!Dead are wearing clothes, so I think we can assume that the First can generate things very close to the body it is projecting. It just cannot set things down or pick up things. Presumably is First!Eve had set down her blanket it would vanish. > [@](#): > > _Also originally posted by Otto_ > **And I have no idea why Willow would seek out a group whom she believes to be blessed wanna-bes with whom she hasn’t associated for three years instead of, say, calling the super-powerful coven she’s been involved with for the last year.** The wanna-bes were close and the English Coven was far away. Also the women in the English coven kept looking at Willow nervously like she might turn them into toads any minute. The wanna-bes had no knowledge of Willow’s recent evil (as far as Willow knew) and therefore might be more willing to help. Willow was (I think) unwilling to turn to Serious Majics to reverse what had happened to her because of her fear the black-eye’d, chalk-tasting evil would move through her again. So Willow went to less powerful wiccans to get the smallest dose of cure possible. Besides, if she’d gone to the Coven it would have taken more plot to discover it was Amy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/87 "2003-02-06T02:04:56Z")
**robert** Giles was all for killing Dawn if they didn’t get there before her blood opened the portals. Buffy had the “I can kill you before you can even blink.” veto however. I do agree that Giles should make Amy his bitch. As for Ben’s status Gregor (the Knight of Exposition) has this to say: > [@](#): > > …She was cast out, banished to this “lower” plane of existence, forced > to live and ultimately die trapped within the body of a mortal, a newborn male, > created as her prison. Her own living Hell. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/88 "2003-02-06T02:27:37Z")
Idea: The next ep opens with Amy flouncing down the street. Cut to: Giles looking at her. Cut to: Giles’ hand holding a scary-looking leatherbound book. Some time in the ep, during a “Who gets first crack at Amy” meeting, Giles states that he had a conversation with Amy, and that she will be leaving Sunnydale shortly, and that she will not be a problem anymore. At the end of the ep, with Giles leaving town (again), we see him stop by a grave of some sort, take out a small thingy, and comment, “Poor Amy. The dark place had your soul for a while now.” He looks at the thingy (we see it is a doll). The doll looks back at Giles. Cut to Amy/Doll’s POV as a huge Giles gently places her in a hole that looks enormous from our perspective. Giles says, “It won’t be forever. When this is all over, I’ll come back for you. To make the cold and the dark go away. But until the First is vanquished, I need you to be alive. I’m sorry.” From the perspective of the Amy/Doll, the camera is buried. The light fades, as we hear shoveling sounds. For a few seconds after the camera is pitch black, we hear more shoveling sounds. Then silence. 5 seconds later, cue credits. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/89 "2003-02-06T03:13:26Z")
I liked it, particularly the bit with Buffy and Spike in the pit. I dunno, the “something has survived” part is always exciting to me. I would have liked it if the survivor had escaped somehow, personally. As for the place not being filled with concrete…kinda hard to disguise that amount of work, right? And why not leave them down there? What’s the point of taking them with them. It’s possible one or more had some kind of disease or had survived (which happened) and you then have more problems. Just cover it up and forget about it. As for Amy’s teleportation: we don’t know how long the events of the night lasted. We didn’t see all of the Scooby car trip, for example. Isn’t it possible that it was morning when Amy teleported her? Does anyone else feel sorry for Andrew? He’s never done anything truly bad to the Scoobies (ok, nothing unreversible) and had nothing to do with Tara’s death. Also, he killed one of his friends under the control of the First. Xander really needs to just cool off. I wonder if anyone will remember what he said this episode (Andrew, not Xander). Btw, am I right in assuming that he (Andrew) is gay? I’ve been getting that impression, and just wanted a little clairification. Sorry if it’s a bit late. oh, and good luck with the job, Thea ---
**Author:** ![Einmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Einmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Einmon)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/90 "2003-02-06T03:23:19Z")
As much as I have liked this season so far, I have to admit that I found this episode to be lukewarm at best. Why? Let’s start off with a small [Riley Rant] When I saw Captain Cardboard aka Riley Finn aka “How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways” in the flashback I already had a sinking feeling in my gut. At least they did not actually bring him in. Maybe he was in charge to get the HQ filled with concrete but instead went off traipsing through the Guatemalan Jungle with the missus. [/Riley Rant] Having vented about this, I did not particularly like the Willow subplot either. Not too much chemistry with Kennedy (I wouldn’t think she’s really Willow’s type but what do I know, taste changes, I guess) Also, as mentioned by others, Amy’s motive just was sooo lame. I thought long and hard about a possible explanation and came up with this: maybe Amy actually _is_ the FE who has been lying to everybody about being incorporeal all along. Hey, we only heard about this from known FE impersonees(??) or from Giles, who then still could not be acquitted. That would make her knowledge of SITs, her powers and her explanation less weird. Or maybe it’s just sloppy writing. _Sigh_ I hate continuity stuff that makes me come up with weird convoluted explanations that are completely ignored in next week’s episode. On the plus side, I’ll enjoy every episode that has James Marsters looking his brooding tortured chained to the bed/cot best. And I got the opportunity to yell: “Ghostbusters!” ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/91 "2003-02-06T05:12:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Does anyone else feel sorry for Andrew? He’s never done anything truly bad to the Scoobies (ok, nothing unreversible) and had nothing to do with Tara’s death. Also, he killed one of his friends under the control of the First. Xander really needs to just cool off. You have to understand where Xander is coming from. The only people allowed to kill other people is Xander himself and everybody he has banged or has wanted to bang at some point. That’s it. Everybody else is shit on the botton of his shoe and will remain that way for eternity. Xander is, after all, the judge and jury of every person in Sunnydale. And Andrew did plenty to the Scoobie Gang. Warren may have been the leader, but Andrew happily followed his every command, including summoning the demon that almost made Buffy kill all of her friends and family. I don’t really know what the writers are doing with Andrew, if they plan on redeeming him, how long they plan on keepin him alive (though if he is, in fact, gay, he will not be killed.) I suspect he’s playing the same role Spike did in S4—the outsider looking into the gang complete with witty comentary. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/92 "2003-02-06T05:26:38Z")
To clarify for me (and possibly other “Why no concrete?” people) the problem isn’t that it wasn’t literally filled with concrete but that it was fairly easy to gain entry into. The military people Riley sent were there as well (yes yes ways back in for them, blah blah blah, it was supposed to be gone). I concede however that filling it with concrete would be absolutely insane and that it had to just be a nifty thing the guy was saying to seem cool. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/93 "2003-02-06T06:58:04Z")
**The Tim** : I don’t know about it being that easy to get into. Buffy and Spike already knew where it was and what to look for, but most people wouldn’t even know it was there to find. The enterance was buried, chained shut, and heavy enough that it took both Buffy and Spike to pull open the door. Not to mention the fact that it turned out the Iniative was filled with secret passages that weren’t on any of the official maps… but which Spike would know about from when he was working for Adam. Hell, that might have been the fifth entrance they hit that night. “Filled with concrete, filled with concrete, filled with concrete… Hey! They missed this one!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/94 "2003-02-06T07:11:10Z")
**Miller** good point. I wish I had actually taped it instead of the WB by accident (damn them for being one number apart) so I could rewatch it. I like doing that after about a page and a half of the Buffy thread. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/95 "2003-02-06T07:24:39Z")
—I thought she was an apparition for a second – until I remembered that WilloWarren slapped her (well, that and she’d been holding hands and stuff).---- I believe she was also packing stuff up as Kennedy walked back into the auditorium. There is no reason to think that she is the First: it would be just as easy for her to be working for the First. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/96 "2003-02-06T09:07:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*Oh, c’mon. There’s hardly any Amy continuity at all. She shows up in maybe three episodes per season, tops. Any number of things could have gone on in her life to make her the whacko we saw last night. And every time we see her, she gets progressively more evil. First time we see her, she’s an innocent victim. Next time we see her, she’s using magic to fuck with people’s heads. \*\* Actually, the first, second, third _and_ fourth times we see her she’s an innocent victim - slightly less so than in BB&B, I admit, but still. The fifth time we see her it’s “yea, whoo, I’ve been deratted, thank you so much Willow!” Her falling into bad company for a while in mid-S6 isn’t evil - she’s high on (human) life - and she was never in anywhere so deep as Willow anyway. She’s clearly been with the college Wiccans for some time getting help, too. Then _suddenly_ it’s “Oh, BTW, did I mention I was a vindictive evil bitch?” The change is entirely confined to this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/97 "2003-02-06T09:10:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Devil’s Grandmother \* > \*\* > > ## quote: > > ## Also originally posted by Evil Death The weird bit is that we definitely saw Eve/First with a blanket draped over her… > > Well, all the characters we’ve seen who are First!Dead are wearing clothes, so I think we can assume that the First can generate things very close to the body it is projecting. It just cannot set things down or pick up things. Presumably is First!Eve had set down her blanket it would vanish. \*\* No dice, sorry. Eve was flanked by two other potentials who were covered by the same blanket. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/98 "2003-02-06T10:47:17Z")
Re: Continuity and Logic. That went out the window along with the trip to Pylea, as far as I’m concerned. To accept vampires and demons takes a certain amount of Suspension Of Disbelief. But my suspension has been stretched past the point of breaking, so long ago, that I don’t bother. I watch the show, enjoy the characters, action, jokes ASF. When it comes to story arcs… I really don’t care. The cellphones bug me, though. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/99 "2003-02-06T10:52:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\*Re: Continuity and Logic. > > That went out the window along with the trip to Pylea, as far as I’m concerned. \*\* And why are you talking about it in a _Buffy_ thread? Pylea was in Angel. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674/100 "2003-02-06T11:10:54Z")
Snarky much? Of course it’s in Angel. But there is supposed to be a set of rules for the entire Buffyverse, which includes Angel. Who died and made you the boss of the thread **I** started. Feh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-04-03-the-killer-in-me-spoilers/152674.md?page=6)