# Buffy 02/11/03 - First Date. (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 10, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202 "2003-02-10T21:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/81 "2003-02-13T02:27:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*I kind of assumed that Xander hacked his cell phone so he activated it, and if he didn’t deactivate it in 10 minutes, it would send the panic signal. That’s what I’d do, in any case. Of course, given Ashanti’s stated intentions, it is probably most reasonable to assume Willow mixed up the signals. > Also, shouldn’t Xander be on antibiotics to keep the bacteria in his intestines from leaking into his bloodstream and killing him painfully? \*\* I don’t think it pierced his intestines, as if it did, I think he would be in a lot more pain. I mean, it might have just been me, but the knife didn’t go too far into Xander…and he DOES have a bit of a gut on him. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/82 "2003-02-13T03:10:56Z")
I also think the scene would have been better without the Turakahn arm reaching up. And since this ep didn’t begin (or) end with Willow whacking Amy, I have no hopes that the seal won’t be ignored for the rest of the show. Also, here is the vibe I am getting. You have your average humans, and your average vampires. Average human \< average vampire. Trained human (Wood, Gunn, the Scoobies sans Buffy in the beginning of S3) is usually \> average vampire. Special (trained, old, mystical) vampire kicks everyone’s ass but the Slayer’s. I.E.: Buffy is not special for staking the vamp that got stuck in the ground way back when. She is special for dusting the Turakahn. Random Buffy thoughts: I’d like to see a trained martial artist get vamped. Q: If Willow is a vampire, does she become Dark!Vamp!Willow? Has anyone Photoshopped a pic of Vamp!Willow with evil eyes and hair? ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/83 "2003-02-13T03:45:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*I thought it was funny that Wood said he was looking for Spike all through his 20s. he’s what? 30? Spike was in Sunnydale, with the Slayer, for most of Wood’s 20s. He should have stopped by for a visit…it’s only an hour or so from LA. \*\* I wouldn’t go that far. Wood’d mother died in 1977, when he was four years old. That puts his birthday at 1972-1973, which would actually make him 29-30. Spike arrived in Sunnydale in the fall of 1997 and stayed until close to the end of academic year 1997-98 (“School Hard” through “Becoming 2”). He then left, and came back for what had to be less than a week in October or November 1998 (“Lovers Walk”, after Homecoming but before Christmas/ “Amends”), left again, came back in September or October 1999 (“The Harsh Light of Day”, which was after start of college but before Halloween/ “Fear, Itself”). He left Sunnydale briefly for the events of Angel’s “In The Dark” episode, but returned to Sunnydale sometime in November 1999 (“The Initiative”), since he returned after Halloween (“Fear, Itself”) and before Thanksgiving (“Pangs”). He seems to have been in Sunnydale pretty constantly since November 1999. (Barring trips to Africa). (Fear me, for I am Continuity Man! :D) So, Wood’s twenties would have been half gone by the time Spike first arrived in Sunnydale, and even more gone when Spike began actually living in Sunnydale permanently. One also assumes that Wood didn’t just look in his backyard in LA for his mother’s killer. He might well have gone all the way back to New York to pick up the trail there. ---
**Author:** ![OcularGold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3e96dc/32.png) [@OcularGold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OcularGold)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/84 "2003-02-13T03:59:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, now that I think about it, maybe only a certain kind of blood will open the seal. Maybe the blood of a traitor? Jonthan turned against Buffy, even though she had saved his life many times before. He also turned against Warren. Spike turned against all evil creatures everywhere when he decided to get his soul back. And Xander left Anya at the altar, which is the worst betrayal of the bunch. Which explains why so little of his blood was needed to pop the seal. probably not, since TFE tried to get andrew to open the seal with pig’s blood. or maybe it was an evil, traitorous pig they had. ---
**Author:** ![pure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ab097/32.png) [@pure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pure)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/85 "2003-02-13T04:12:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OcularGold \* > \*\*or maybe it was an evil, traitorous pig they had. \*\* I for one have met many evil, traitorous pigs. :mad: I ate them :o ---
**Author:** ![Wisp00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/977dab/32.png) [@Wisp00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wisp00)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/86 "2003-02-13T04:33:31Z")
I not sure why some people think ME screwed up with the mirror thing. I didn’t catch on while I was watching (sometimes I’m a little slow…) but I did notice that Wood kept glancing in the mirror and giving strange looks. Plus, there was that extremly nosey “how do you know each other…” question. At most, that would be a getting-to-know-you question that was not really appropriate for the rescue mission they were on. After reading the post, it all made perfect sense to me… Also, during the fight when Spike vamps out, I thought Wood says that Spike’s a vampire not in a surprised sort of way, but in a “that confirmed my suspisions” sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/87 "2003-02-13T05:21:10Z")
About Wood and LA and missing out on finding Spike. I don’t think he’s from where he said he was from when Buffy made the comment to him about the 'hood. His mother was a Slayer in NYC, presumably that’s where he would be as well. Given that he doesn’t have findable records (and it is fairly easy to find some scrap of evidence for a person’s existence given just their name and location) it is safe to say that just because he claims to be from somewhere doesn’t make it so. I have a question about the actress playing his mom/the First. She doesn’t seem to be the origional actress who played the second Slayer Spike killed but she still looks familiar. I want to say she’s the woman who played a recurring secondary character in Hercules/Xena but I don’t really think it is her. Can anyone save me from the suffering of recognizing an actress but not knowing where I remember her from? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/88 "2003-02-13T05:33:01Z")
I kinda figured he _didn’t_ see Spike in the mirror and had some, gee, you know, suspicions? I had no impression at any time that Wood saw Spike in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/89 "2003-02-13T06:14:13Z")
Well, she is not the original Nikki. The actress from S5 was really a stunt woman, and too old for the role now. Those two things worked against her, and they recast the character. Well, Spike was in or around Sunnydale for the past 6 years. SInce Wood was 24, at least. So even if Spike wasn’t physically in his back yard the whole time, that’s where his trail would pick up and lead back to. If Wood was really concerned about finding his mother’s killer, and he found out at one point thatk Buffy was the Slayer, and he knew she lived on the Hellmouth, why didn’t he start there? You know, where her watcher’s journals would be at least? Feh. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/90 "2003-02-13T06:24:05Z")
I think Giles provides a contrast between Buffy and Angel. The Angel gang is in high gear, focused on fighting the Beast. The Buffy gang is kinda… uh, unfocused. They haven’t even had an on-screen discussion of what the talking eyeball had to say. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/91 "2003-02-13T11:08:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wisp00 \* > \*\*Also, during the fight when Spike vamps out, I thought Wood says that Spike’s a vampire not in a surprised sort of way, but in a “that confirmed my suspisions” sort of way. \*\* I don’t think Wood gets surprised by very much any more. He’s quite literally been raised to the knowledge that all these things are real. Meanwhile, here’s a Loony Theory - Wood’s mother’s Watcher is also Wood’s father. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/92 "2003-02-13T11:19:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Tim \* > \*\*I have a question about the actress playing his mom/the First. She doesn’t seem to be the origional actress who played the second Slayer Spike killed but she still looks familiar. I want to say she’s the woman who played a recurring secondary character in Hercules/Xena but I don’t really think it is her. Can anyone save me from the suffering of recognizing an actress but not knowing where I remember her from? \*\* The original Nikki was stuntowman April Weeden-Washington, but she’s not credited for this ep. Checking the IMDB, I note that K D Aubert is not credited there. The photos look about right, so I’d guess that’s her. [http://us.imdb.com/Name?Aubert,+K.D](http://us.imdb.com/Name?Aubert,+K.D). Not much, really - a bit part in The Scorpion King and that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/93 "2003-02-13T17:12:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*Meanwhile, here’s a Loony Theory - Wood’s mother’s Watcher is also Wood’s father. \*\* That might explain why Wood’s Watcher-Guardian was out of contact with the rest of council. Considering the council’s reaction when Giles had “a father’s love” for Buffy it’s not unreasonable to think he might have been fired and all his books taken from him. However, we’re assuming the watcher was a man. Did Wood specify? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/94 "2003-02-13T18:49:33Z")
Do demons other than vampires appear in mirrors? If they don’t, then I can understand why Wood might be perplexed. However, if vamps are the only ones who an invisible to mirrors, then Wood would have no reason to say, “He’s a vampire!” when Spike went all bumpy-faced. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/95 "2003-02-13T19:21:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Devil’s Grandmother \* > \*\*That might explain why Wood’s Watcher-Guardian was out of contact with the rest of council. Considering the council’s reaction when Giles had “a father’s love” for Buffy it’s not unreasonable to think he might have been fired and all his books taken from him. > However, we’re assuming the watcher was a man. Did Wood specify? \*\* NSFAICR. However, I don’t recall his mother’s Watcher being out of touch either, except insofar that his job was done. The Council definitely knew that Spike was the one who killed Nikki; it’s in the records that Spike had killed a certain number of Slayers, and we see all their stories in Fool For Love. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/96 "2003-02-13T19:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Random Buffy thoughts: > I’d like to see a trained martial artist get vamped. At least one did- I recall them mentioning it right before that graveyard fight with Buffy, I guess the extra plain exposition on that point was to allow for the extra kicky fight. Buffy still staked him. Forgot the episode name-- little help? Even well trained Vamps like Angel and Spike most get schooled by the Slayer (there were a few plot-need based exceptions though). Even uber-bad Angelus did not have too much luck. Heck, even Faith got the Buffy-based beatdown. Although the recently “detuned” UPN Buffy is not as badass as the “facing a God and winning” WB Buffy. Sure she had help, but it still was Buffy putting the hammer to the head. She also swatted the blacked eyed wizard thing (who easily schooled Spike) off the Derrick structure with ease. ---
**Author:** ![Edwardina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Edwardina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edwardina)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/97 "2003-02-13T20:33:49Z")
If Wood knew that a vampire named Spike was the one that killed his mother, don’t you think he would have had a bit of a stronger reaction when he realized this Spike that Buffy was hanging out with was a vamp? Therefore I would assume he did not have the info that the Council had about how Nikki died. ---
**Author:** ![joshmaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@joshmaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joshmaker)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/98 "2003-02-13T20:43:11Z")
OK, here I go, some responses to some random posts…. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > Random Buffy thoughts: > I’d like to see a trained martial artist get vamped. I remember the vampire that Buffy fought in “Conversations with dead people” mentioning something about martial arts training. Personally, I want to know what would happen if a \* Slayer \* was vamped. Super vampire maybe? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > I kinda figured he didn’t see Spike in the mirror and had some, gee, you know, suspicions? I had no impression at any time that Wood saw Spike in the mirror. That is how I viewed the scene. Sometimes I think people go looking for problems that aren’t there. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beadalin \* > I think it’s perfectly plausible that Xander sent the message before Ashanti went evil, thinking that she was taking him somewhere to get, you know, intimate with him. Sure, or else she could have tied Xander up and put him in the back seat of her car. He manages to get a hand free long enough to type out a text message (because if he tried to talk over it she would have heard him). People seem to have been confused because of the quick cut from Willow to Xander on the torture wheel. But television is not in real time – after all, the car ride over to the high school did not really take ten minutes. The writer or director just compressed events a little bit in order to make the scene funnier. No matter how it happened, I don’t think the episode needed an extra scene to explain how Xander sent out the text message when we can just infer that it happed sometime on route. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Judith Prietht \* > Particularly as the young Robin was then raised by his mother’s Watcher, who I think most certainly would have known who killed his Slayer. Otto, I always thought the Watcher Diaries or whatever kept records of prominent vampires and significant kills they made. Giles never shared any of that information with Buffy, right? Remember, the reason why Buffy had to go talk to Spike in the episode “Fool for Love” is because the watcher diaries had almost no details about the deaths of any slayers. I thought the episode’s presentation of the situation was convincing. Robin Wood would have a small amount of evidence to go off of; enough to guess Spike with the help of the First, but not enough to have done much else. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Judith The Gaspode \* > Maybe JW and ME decided to take a turn to school, but got really negative reactions from a focus group and had to change gear. I doubt it. A show like Buffy has to be planned way in advance… I don’t think that enough time would have passed (from when the first episode of the season was made) for that to be possible. Besides, I think that the writers of Buffy have been doing it long enough, and are talented enough that they don’t need to rely on focus groups to make decisions for them. But hey, what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/99 "2003-02-13T20:55:50Z")
In CwDP, Parker had 2 years Tae Kwan Do. I’d like to see one of those seriously scary can-do-Slayery-things-without-superpowers martial arts types get vamped. And although she only existed for one quarter of one episode, Vamp!Buffy ruled. ---
**Author:** ![joshmaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@joshmaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joshmaker)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202/100 "2003-02-13T21:26:13Z")
On the Wood/Blade connection… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmburns \* > I can’t speak for those who made the comparison, but I see at least one similarity other than ethnicity (and gender, for that matter). They are both half-human and half superbeing, although one is half vamp and the other is half vamp slayer. I don’t think that Wood is “Half Slayer” because the lineage of potential slayers seems to be passed on by something other than genetics. Even if he did get some sort of slayer gene I don’t think it would matter because: 1. He is male which appears to be a no go for mystical slayerness 2. Even 100% potential Slayer’s require some sort of mystical activation to reach there true potential 3. Dawn, who was made from Buffy and “share the same blood”, (or something like that) has so far failed to become a potential slayer. I think whatever slaying abilities he has come from dedication and experience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-02-11-03-first-date-spoilers/154202.md?page=6)