# Buffy 03/25/03 - Lies my parents told me (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 24, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900 "2003-03-24T23:10:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/101 "2003-03-28T00:44:35Z")
He hates computers because they don’t have a smell. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/102 "2003-03-28T01:42:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*He hates computers because they don’t have a smell. \*\* I concur. Tree books are sublime. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/103 "2003-03-28T01:47:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > Still, Wood and Giles were both acting very stupidly in the scenerio. Youknow who else was an accomplished fighter? Wood’s mother. Oh yeah, and the Slayer who still hasn’t killed him after six years. I think it was the pinnacle of arrogance ot assume that he could lock himslef up in a small room with Spike, and win. _Especially_ in his triggered state. Well, yes, but Nikki fought on a subway car; Robin fought in a room festooned with crosses that didn’t have any effect on him but burned his opponent. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/104 "2003-03-28T03:25:07Z")
Even with the crosses, I honestly cannot believe any sane, intelligent person would willingly lock themselves in a small room with the only known vampire to take out 2 Slayers and think he would walk away the victor. It’s not about the setting, it’s about the skills and strength, and Wood apparently doesn’t have much of either. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/105 "2003-03-28T14:50:19Z")
Pigs in Space > [@](#): > > Maybe I’m confusing 2 episodes, but I thought they did cover this. Gunn goes into the apartment, but Angel can’t go in, so he “leans” against the forcefield. A couple minutes later he stumbles into the room and one of them says “Guess he died.” You are. Gunn didn’t debut until after Faith’s appearances in S1. pepperlandgirl > [@](#): > > Youknow who else was an accomplished fighter? Wood’s mother. Oh yeah, and the Slayer who still hasn’t killed him after six years. I think it was the pinnacle of arrogance ot assume that he could lock himslef up in a small room with Spike, and win. Especially in his triggered state. Well yeah, Wood was stupid to take on triggered Spike, but Giles didn’t know he was going to do that. As far as we know, Giles didn’t know Wood was going to fight Spike at all (fight as opposed to stake from behind or whatever). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/106 "2003-03-28T14:56:03Z")
Oops, hit “submit” early. There were a number of ways Wood could have taken out Spike other than the fisticuffs route he went. Could have shot him with a dart gun and staked him in his sleep, for example. It’s not a reflection on Giles that Wood decided to play “who’s is bigger” with William the Triggered instead. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/107 "2003-03-28T16:47:57Z")
I am with Pepperlandgirl on this issue. Spike did not trust Wood at all. Spike did trust Giles. The dart thing (unless needed for a plot point) seems to not work very well in Buffy or Angel, as the “higher quality” vamps seem to just catch them. also: > [@](#): > > To be fair, Wood is an accomplished fighter and Giles presumably had no idea that Wood was going to trigger Spike before the throwdown. Also, Giles has been out of the loop and only learned that the chip was removed very recently (it seems like longer to us because of the damned repeats). Wood wasn’t that good a fighter. Even in the episode in question, he took a serious beatdown (which would have led to his death) from a regular “crony” quality Vamp in the alley, and had to be saved by Spike. Not only that, his plan really sucked. Weak and stupid- that’s not the Wood we started with. No flamethrower, industrial chain saw, heavy machine gun, super soaker filled with holy water, daylight trap, or stake in the back while he’s not paying attention. Just fancy brass knuckles against a very cheesed off Vamp you just intentionally triggered. Hell he was chained down in Buffy’s basement half the time. A little lighter fluid and a match and Vamp its a dusty Vamp BBQ. * * * There hopefully is an small upside to this travesty in that the Wood - Spike thing is finally done. It was contrived to start with, and hopefully it’s now done. Maybe Xander will get more then 3 words in the next episode now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/108 "2003-03-28T16:56:03Z")
Those are cheap and easy ways, **elf6c**. I think Wood was looking for revenge. And revenge required a serious beating, not just killing. Wood simply overestimated his ability - and underestimated Spike’s (especially after he wasn’t distracted by the flashbacks). I don’t think it was out of character for him, though. He did state that he didn’t want to kill Spike, he wanted to kill the monster who killed his mother. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/109 "2003-03-28T17:24:51Z")
I too caught the Dr Gull reference & wondered if we might actually see him in the ep (tho I don’t at all buy the Ripper theory about him, much as enjoyed the film FROM HELL). Did any HAMMER film fans have BRIDES OF DRACULA flashbacks of Baron Meinster & his Mum? Finally, RE William’s Mum/Vampire- while I think it was mainly the Demon taunting him, I wonder if she might have been wanting him to kill her. When he did stake her, she had a very serene thankful expression as she disintegrated. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/110 "2003-03-28T18:15:31Z")
Perhaps he had sense, just no will to survive. Was Wood committing a painful suicide? Let’s think about Robin Wood for a minute. He knows the world is about to end, the girl he likes is in love with the vampire who killed his mother, his mother is dead, his father/watcher who raised him is dead/absent, and he appears to have no friends. What’s holding him to this world? His job? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/111 "2003-03-28T19:38:37Z")
What’s holding him to this world? A deep and abidong love for one Joey Bishop. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/112 "2003-03-28T20:07:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Devil’s Grandmother \* > \*\*What’s holding him to this world? His job? \*\* Gravity, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/113 "2003-03-28T20:12:24Z")
> [@](#): > > the girl he likes is in love with the vampire who killed his mother, I wonder if he likes Buffy because she’s Buffy, or because she’s the Slayer? He may have “mommy issues…” I wonder how he’ll react to Faith? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/114 "2003-03-28T20:19:18Z")
Interesting thought, pepperlandgirl. I thought the look Dru gave Spike when he suggested bringing his mother along on the reign of terror was great. Has Spike sired anyone other than his mother and the vamps he made while under the influence of the First? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/115 "2003-03-28T21:00:34Z")
I assume at least half of the vampires working for Spike and Dru during season two were made by Spike. (The other half, naturally, being made by Drucilla) We know that he turned Buffy’s brain-tumored wannabe-bloodsucker ex-friend into a vampire, even though his plan to deliver Buffy up to Spike backfired. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/116 "2003-03-28T22:35:29Z")
Actually, I think that, aside from “Conversations with Dead People” and “Sleeper”, Spike really has only sired a very few vamps in his long unlife. Ford was the only one he’s known to have sired during his tenure on BtVS. I don’t think he actually sired any of his minions from S2- they seem to have been left over from the Order of Aurelis- the Master/Annoying One’s minions who transferred their loyalties to Spike after he killed the Annoying One. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/117 "2003-03-28T22:53:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Buffy’s brain-tumored wannabe-bloodsucker ex-friend into a vampire, even though his plan to deliver Buffy up to Spike backfired. He was obviously turned, but we can’t know for sure that Spike did it. He might have fed him to Dru. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/118 "2003-03-29T00:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thea Logica \* > \*\*Actually, I think that, aside from “Conversations with Dead People” and “Sleeper”, Spike really has only sired a very few vamps in his long unlife. Ford was the only one he’s known to have sired during his tenure on BtVS. > > I don’t think he actually sired any of his minions from S2- they seem to have been left over from the Order of Aurelis- the Master/Annoying One’s minions who transferred their loyalties to Spike after he killed the Annoying One. \*\* Sure, at first. But Buffy was offing four or five of them an episode. Sooner or later, he or Dru were going to have to start replenishing the stocks, and Drucilla wasn’t in any condition to go hunting herself. I actually think Spike would be more likely to turn someone he’s fed off of, rather than just letting them die. For a remorseless psycho killer, he was always a big softie at heart, and giving someone “eternal life” probably would sit better with him than just permanently offing them. I always thought it was an interesting character note that Spike kept his promise to Ford even though the plan failed. Especially in light of his conversation with Adam about getting the chip out of his head despite failing to drive a wedge between Buffy and the Scoobies. It wasn’t just self-serving whining; he really is an A-for-effort kind of vampire. ---
**Author:** ![Pigs\_in\_Space](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@Pigs\_in\_Space](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pigs_in_Space)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/119 "2003-03-29T06:01:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*You are. Gunn didn’t debut until after Faith’s appearances in S1. > \*\* Darn - now I’ll have to go out and rent the DVDs. About Spike’s mom, I also wondered if she was goading him into staking her. Either that or she was the only vampire we’ve seen whose vampire personality has nothing to do with the mortal personality. Or she really did hate his poetry. Haven’t decided yet. ---
**Author:** ![Pigs\_in\_Space](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@Pigs\_in\_Space](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pigs_in_Space)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900/120 "2003-03-29T06:08:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*You are. Gunn didn’t debut until after Faith’s appearances in S1. > \*\* Darn - now I’ll have to go out and rent the DVDs. About Spike’s mom, I also wondered if she was goading him into staking her. Either that or she was the only vampire we’ve seen whose vampire personality has nothing to do with the mortal personality. Or she really did hate his poetry. Haven’t decided yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-03-25-03-lies-my-parents-told-me-spoilers/163900.md?page=7)