# Buffy 05/11/02 spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 5, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317 "2002-11-05T04:15:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/61 "2002-11-07T06:40:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Telemark \* > \*\*Anyone else completely confused by the Train Rescue? I mean, draw me a map where it’s quicker to climb on the train, then jump off the train (on to her back), get up, and get to Dawn ahead of the train she just jumped off? Logic went out the window for that scene. \*\* There were two trains, on seperate tracks, going towards each other. Dawn was on the far set of tracks. Buffy tried to outrace the train nearest to get around it to Dawn, but couldn’t get past it. She climbed on board, jumped off between the tracks, and rescued Dawn from the second, oncoming train. ---
**Author:** ![Juniper200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@Juniper200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juniper200)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/62 "2002-11-07T07:00:49Z")
Episode 8, **pepper**? That’s only, like, two weeks from now. I don’t know if that’s enough time to gird my emotional loins, as it were. But hey, confrontations mean rational speach and rational speach means less crazy, so I guess it’s sort of of the good… ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/63 "2002-11-07T12:24:24Z")
Could I request that if you guys are going to discuss spoiler - please use the spoiler tags. I don’t want to know that you have reason to be worried about Spike or that there’s a confrontation in episode 8 or anything. I go out of my way to avoid any hints of what’s coming next and I’d hate to have to stop reading these threads too. Thank You. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/64 "2002-11-07T14:02:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Number Six \* > \*\* > > There were two trains, on seperate tracks, going towards each other. Dawn was on the far set of tracks. Buffy tried to outrace the train nearest to get around it to Dawn, but couldn’t get past it. She climbed on board, jumped off between the tracks, and rescued Dawn from the second, oncoming train. \*\* OK, that makes sense, but it was filmed horribly. It seemed to be a random collection of old Bionic Woman clips, spliced together with a lousy soundtrack. Once Willow and Anya fell for the Jacket Hunklet, the episode moved into some seriously fun slapstick. In that vein, the rocket launcher and the bump and grab plan fit perfectly. No need to analyze where the rocket launcher came from, no one ever questioned how certain amazing items ended up in the Magic Shop or where Buffy keeps getting these broadswords and axes. It was fun, in a way many recent episodes haven’t been. The Blood on the Tracks (Dawn was made from Buffy’s blood, right?) was a bit of a jolt in the middle of that section, but handled pretty well. Spike was a non-entity in this episode, except for the nice bit with the angel statues. Dawn can be hot, and she can move well, the cheerleader tryout was a disappointment. She should have done much better. And she should have kicked that other girl’s ass when they fought, she’s learned to take on vamps, fer-gosh-sakes. What’s with the hair pulling, she should have taken her out. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/65 "2002-11-07T14:16:29Z")
Slapstick behind the back of an oblivious third party, who is saved without knowing he was ever in danger - brilliant? Yeah - right! Never been done before. Good thing we have Buff to push the envelope. To me, the whole thing had a predictable “aren’t we cute” tone. Moderately amusing, but by no means “brilliant.” ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/66 "2002-11-07T14:38:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\* > > The analyzing is the fun part. Some people like to think about what they watch, rather than just let it in to bounce around unimpeded inside of their skulls. \*\* I think the idea was that for the comedy one-off episodes, a little more dramatic license for the sake of a good joke (i.e. Buffy could easy kill the Principal with her bare hands or numerous weapons lying around-- but the rocket launcher is _so_ over the top its funnier). Think of it like the Treehouse of Horror episodes on the Simpsons- the rules are relaxed a bit for that episode. Also a reminder-- if you want to talk about possible “bad things” happening to your favorite character based on Spoiler site info or interviews-- please use the spoiler box-- some of us prefer to be suprised. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Juniper200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@Juniper200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juniper200)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/67 "2002-11-07T14:43:41Z")
Well, it wasn’t brilliant, but it still made me laugh. No crime in that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/68 "2002-11-07T17:22:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeevmon \* > \*\* > > Well, actually we _know_ where the rocket launcher came from. That wasn’t really the problem, at least from my end. It was that the rocket launcher, which has been missing since Season 2, was brought back solely for the purpose of a cheap sight gag, after which it will probably be forgotten again. > > If they’re going to make it part of the story that she still has this thing, they should remember that when writing other scripts in which the rocket launcher would be the obvious solution. This isn’t the same as remembering that you can push the Enterprise to Warp 911 by adding ultralithium to the antimatter dot matrix, suspending it in a magnetic envelope and blowing it out the Enterprise’s ass. That’s pseudoscience gobbledygook, and who the hell knows if it makes sense, so who cares if they forget about it the next time. (Anyway, knowing Trek, there’s probably some pseudoscience exception that prevents the solution from working the same way, such as it only works on Tuesdays or when positrons dance on the head of a pin stuck in the collar of Schroedinger’s cat. ) A rocket launcher is much more basic. > The difference between this and, say, “Innocence” is that “Innocence” was an episode in which Joss and the writers constructed a problem that required the rocket launcher as a solution. (Joss’ audio commentary to Innocence makes the importance of having the rocket launcher in it clear). The rocket launcher was still funny in “Innocence” (“What’s that do?”), but it was not just a sight gag, it was the clear solution to the problem posed. The rocket launcher then gets mothballed for five years, after which it is brought out again, not as the solution to a problem, but simply because the writers wanted to get a chuckle. That’s sloppy writing. \*\* Oh, boy. It’s worse than I thought. It is _not_ sloppy writing - as you noted, the writers wanted to get a chuckle. **They achieved their purpose.** Look at the commentary above - the rocket launcher scene has been repeatedly noted as one of the hilarious scenes in the episode. When a writer accomplishes what the writer wanted to accomplish, that is the opposite of sloppy writing. The writers could have avoided the inconsistency by giving Buffy a rifle - but it wouldn’t have been as funny to see Spike running away with a rifle, now would it? A rocket launcher was funnier, so it was the right thing to use. And yes, your response is precisely the same as a Trekkie’s response. You are fixated on a detail that is irrelevant to the plot and say there is sloppy writing because the irrelevant detail isn’t consistent with events 5 years ago. Sua ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/69 "2002-11-07T17:46:27Z")
OK, we’re nearly a third of the way into the season and we still haven’t seen Clem, and you guys are quibbling over the use of a rocket launcher? My Joss, people, where are your priorities? I mean, they introduce a character in S6, ge me all fond of him, he’s the last one to see Spike before he went off to get his soul back, he’s supposed to be crypt sitting, and now, six episodes into the new season, no Clem, no crypt, no explanation. Clem. I want to see Clem. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/70 "2002-11-07T18:32:50Z")
I thought the rocket launcher scene was hilarious, and was not in the least bothered by what implications it might have for continuity or whatnot. But I feel the need to nitpick a little bit. The rocket launcher used the other night was not the same weapon she used against the Judge. It was a big bazooka-type tube, while the earlier one was one of the more compact, modern type. (IIRC, and I’m pretty sure I do.) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/71 "2002-11-07T18:51:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Number Six \* > \*\* > > There were two trains, on seperate tracks, going towards each other. Dawn was on the far set of tracks. Buffy tried to outrace the train nearest to get around it to Dawn, but couldn’t get past it. She climbed on board, jumped off between the tracks, and rescued Dawn from the second, oncoming train. \*\* I sort of got the idea that there were two trains while watching the scene, but it was still confusing. When they first show them noticing that Dawn is on the tracks, it seemed to me that she was at most 200 feet from them, so the whole bit with climbing onto one train and so on made no sense whatsoever to me. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/72 "2002-11-07T20:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\* > > I sort of got the idea that there were two trains while watching the scene, but it was still confusing. When they first show them noticing that Dawn is on the tracks, it seemed to me that she was at most 200 feet from them, so the whole bit with climbing onto one train and so on made no sense whatsoever to me. \*\* ## I got that part, eventually. The part that made NO sense to me was Xander shouting something like, “Hey look! Over there! Dawn’s on tracks!” And then standing around like an idiot while everyone else stares blankly for a while. Finally Buffy breaks into a run. You’d think Xander would a slightly better reaction time than he demonstratedd on Tuesday. Maybe they had to decide between saving her or ending the whining. Justin ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/73 "2002-11-07T21:53:19Z")
Oh please. The spoiler for next week gave away more in terms of spoilers than either I or Thea did. I read an interesting theory that **Him** was all about Buffy’s feelings for Spike. Dawn=Crazy romantic. There’s a part of Buffy who thinks that’s what love _should_ be like. Indeed, we saw her do the very same “dance” with Angel. Also, Dawn was willing to sacrifice everything—we’ve also seen Buffy exhibit that kind of love. Willow=Crazy control freak. Willow has always used magic to deal with love problems, sometimes against other people’s will (Most times, actually.) She had the control in the relationship with Oz, and after Tara grew a backbone and started asserting herself, Willow wiped her memories, _ **twice** _. This is the part of Buffy that wants to be in charge of the relationship, wants to have all the power, and wants Spike to change to meet her demands. With both of these aspects of her personality taken care of, that leaves the undeniable sexual side of Buffy. That’s why Buffy was the one who actually instigated a sexual situation (Still don’t believe there was poke-age). I’m not sure how Anya fits in. Xander=Sensible side. He is willing to take Spike into his home, he is willing to let Spike help him, and htough he bitches about it, he is willing help Spike. He’s not affected in anyway by the spell, and so he is able to see things clearly. Spike was silent because Buffy was trying to work through her feelings of the whole thing, and really, we didn’t need to know about Spike’s. I’m not saying this is right, I just thought it was very interesting. (The person who originally laid this out did a better job though. I saw it on a very very active Group though, and I doubt I’ll be able to find the post again.) That’s why I like BTVS so much…there can be many, many interpretations supported “by the text” so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/74 "2002-11-07T21:54:31Z")
The **promo** for next week. (Duh) ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/75 "2002-11-07T23:11:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*Oh please. The spoiler for next week gave away more in terms of spoilers than either I or Thea did. > \*\* It’s not a question of how much. It’s about information I didn’t know. I don’t remember anything in the promo that would give me concern for Spike. I only recall a brief shot of him in Vampire Face. And a promo for episode seven doesn’t tell me that there’s going to be a confrontation between Spike and Buffy in episode 8. These are things I did not want to know that weren’t revealed in the promo. **elf6c** and I only asked - rather politely I thought - that such info be placed in a spoiler box - not even left out of the discussion entirely. I get the impression that you don’t want to honor our request. That’s fine. I’ll simply stay out of the Buffy threads from now on. It’s not that big a deal for me. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/76 "2002-11-08T00:13:13Z")
Spike was biting somebody in the promo, is all. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2002, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/77 "2002-11-08T00:18:14Z")
And it’s not so much that I don’t want to honor your request, but you had _two_ chances to read Thea’s post about spoilers that she is worried about, spefically asking me for a response. What did you think my next post (that quotes hers) was going to pertain to? My original response to you was because I felt that maybe you should take a little bit of responsiblity for seeing info you didn’t want to see, since you had two chances to think to yourself “hmmmm, pepper’s post might have spoilers.” Honestly, I completely forgot about the spoiler box because I was in a hurry, it wasn’t some plot to reveal crucial information to the unsuspecting poplace…I was writing a response to soembody who obviously know what spoilers there are and obviously knew that I knew what was out there. I didn’t think about the spoiler box, and I’m sorry for my oversight. ---
**Author:** ![Juniper200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@Juniper200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juniper200)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/78 "2002-11-08T00:54:10Z")
I don’t know about the whole episode being about the Buffy/Spike dynamic, but I thought there were certainly parts that spoke to their relationship–especially after Buffy rescued Dawn from the train tracks. “He’d always know that someone loved him so much that she would die for him–and it would be true.” And meanwhile I’m all, “Buffy, are you even listening to this?” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/79 "2002-11-08T01:16:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the idea was that for the comedy one-off episodes, a little more dramatic license for the sake of a good joke (i.e. Buffy could easy kill the Principal with her bare hands or numerous weapons lying around-- but the rocket launcher is so over the top its funnier). No, I get that. I didn’t have any sort of a problem with the rocket launcher scene, except for the pain from laughing so hard. I don’t see it as any sort of a continuity problem. We’ve seen that Buffy can get her hands on a rocket launcher when she needs one, so what the hell, give her a rocket launcher for this scene if it’s worth the laugh. What bugs me is the “Why are you people even bothering to talk about this stuff?” type of response that bothers me. Take one side of an argument or the other, or sit it out if you’re not interested in it. But making fun of people just for engaging in the argument is, IMO, jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2002, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317/80 "2002-11-08T01:48:56Z")
Vague ramblings based on spoilers below I just got more spoilers, Thea, and you know what? I dont know if I will be with the show after sweeps, that’s how disheartened I am. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-05-11-02-spoilers/135317.md?page=5)