# Buffy 06/05/03 - Touched (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 6, 2003, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364 "2003-05-06T11:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/61 "2003-05-07T20:03:21Z")
Ah. Thanks. Shippers. Fanfic. Slashfic. Sometimes, I’m really glad I don’t have more free time than I do. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/62 "2003-05-07T20:04:29Z")
Missed most of the episode due to a homework emergency. Not sorry I did. Frankly, I’m only watching now because I’m curious to see how the series will end. “Buffy” has been great fun but this last season has been incredibly tedious and I’m ready to get off the ride already. Can’t wait to see the series finale of “Angel” tonight. And then next week he’ll be back to wrap up “Buffy.” I’m giddy with glee. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/63 "2003-05-07T20:12:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\*The bright red coloring of that axe kind of made it look like Barbie’s Dream Decapitator. \*\* Best. Description. Ever… ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/64 "2003-05-07T20:17:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Carter the Great \* > \*\*And with Giles slitting the Bringer’s throat… IT wasn’t out of character… He’s RIPPER. Remember? \ Giles sent Willow out of the room (under the pretense of getting rope) so he could torture the guy. \*\* You’re saying it yourself. It _is_ out of character, because Giles has always kept his Ripper persona from the characters of the show. We, the viewers, occasionally get to se him do some cool moves with a sword or kill Ben or whatever. For the other persons on the show, he always tries to keep his alof, librarian, tweed persona on top. Sure, they know he’s Ripper. That doesn’t mean he’s proud of it or shows off. Remember his little speach to Ben, just before he killed him. Ripper is stealthy. To slit that bringers throat in front of Willow (sic!), Kennedy, Xander and Andrew, was so out of character I couldn’t hear what they were saying when walking out of the room, because I was so baffled. Had to pause and watch it again. Also, regarding shipper. It’s not exclusive to this show. There are shippers for Kirk and Spock. One of the better is from a website called [grissomandsara.com](http://grissomandsara.com). It’s a shipper site for people who wants Grissom and Sara Sidle from C.S.I. to get together. :dubious: There are people out there with way too much time on their hands. ---
**Author:** ![Carter\_the\_Great](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Carter\_the\_Great](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carter_the_Great)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/65 "2003-05-07T20:30:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\*You’re saying it yourself. It _is_ out of character, because Giles has always kept his Ripper persona from the characters of the show. We, the viewers, occasionally get to se him do some cool moves with a sword or kill Ben or whatever. For the other persons on the show, he always tries to keep his alof, librarian, tweed persona on top. Sure, they know he’s Ripper. That doesn’t mean he’s proud of it or shows off. Remember his little speach to Ben, just before he killed him. > Ripper is stealthy. To slit that bringers throat in front of Willow (sic!), Kennedy, Xander and Andrew, was so out of character I couldn’t hear what they were saying when walking out of the room, because I was so baffled. Had to pause and watch it again. > \*\* Why should he hide it? It’s the FUCKING END of the WORLD! They are in the middle of a war. There’s no reason to play proper for the kiddies. This isn’t Giles First Season. This is Giles in war mode. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/66 "2003-05-07T20:37:22Z")
Being something of a Spillow shipper myself, I was really, really not interested in seeing the Killow sex. Really, really. Faith/Wood just seemed contrived. There wasn’t even enough of a sense of “hold me, I’m scared” between them to justify it. I liked the Xanya scene, though. Sharing ice cream, with the same spoon, even, was kinda romantic, and I think those two crazy kids really do love each other, in spite of, well, everything. Spike just holding Buffy was awesome, even though at this point I don’t really think she deserves a man who would move Heaven and Earth, and probably a couple of Hell dimensions if necessary, for her. The thing is, it was pretty clear through most of S6 that Spike really did just want to hold Buffy, especially in the opening teaser of “Dead Things”, when he was trying to nuzzle her and she would have no part of it, but if all he could get was the sex, well, he would take it. Oh, yeah, and the Shadow Men wanted to infuse Buffy with all that icky demony power, when all she really needed was a snuggle from Spike. Go figure… ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/67 "2003-05-07T20:40:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*What shipper groups do you think are out there for Killow and Food? Seriously? I have never met one single person who said “Oh baby, if we can only get Faith and Wood ot have sex all will be right withthe world.” There aren’t any vids dedicated to those guys, no fanfic, no message boards, no chat rooms. I’ve never met a fan who even likes Kennedy—Wait, I think there’s one on the SDMB, but that’s it. I mean, I get it. You don’t like shippers. Fine. But do you have to blame everything you don’t like on the non-existant “shipper camps”? > > \*\* Umm, based on many of the fan sites I have been to, and the numerous fan-fict I have seen (some of it better then the UPN Buffy) there is a camp for _every_ combo possible. Lets see: 1. Fans into Buffy and Spike. Lots. Obviously. 2. Fans into Willow and Tara. Lots. Using the horrible Kennedy to appeal to those fans may not be wise, but that is what it looks like they are attempting to do to me. Badly. 3. Fans of Faith, including those that like to speculate on who she would be “paired” with, especially after the basement scene with Spike. Lots. 4. Fans of Wood, especially after the faint towards a relationship with Buffy. Lots. Not much to combine #3 and #4 is it? 1. Fans of Xander and Anya. Lots. Probably including me, in all fairness. Gee, hard to see what the writers might be after. . . . Further, I have hardly blamed everything on the Shipper camps. Here are my **exact** words: > [@](#): > > Again, another very off and on episode. Much of the first half was simply horrible, and the somewhat ridiculous sex scenes seemed to be pandering to the various shipper camps. Although I did think the Anya and Xander scene was cute. It is a major leap to claim that I am blaming one type of fan for all the ills of the show. I would like the think we could discuss the show without you flying off the handle again. All Buffy fans do not hold the exact opinions you do, nor the same biases. One thing I have learned is that we are all different. Still we manage to discuss the show in a civil manner without overblown restatements of someone’s position or overreaching statements of what every single group of buffy fans are thinking. If this were the first time this happened I would ignore it, but its not. * * * FWIW: \*\* this\*\* is what’s wrong with the show. Writing, direction and acting. Since The Gift, the show has been rudderless as Joss spent too much time on other projects that failed. The major plotlines were bad, the writing to implement them was worse, and the direction lacked the punch of former seasons. The characters seemed to become one-dimensional and sometimes would be written completely differently from Episode to Episode. The humor dried up completely. They took poor Spike and made him the chained up puppy in peril. Anya lost any purpose she once had. Xander became the window fix it guy. Willow became a magic junky. 3 tiresome nerds were the major villans for most of a season. The SITS. Kennedy. Giles II. Need I say more? ---
**Author:** ![Carter\_the\_Great](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Carter\_the\_Great](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carter_the_Great)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/68 "2003-05-07T20:53:32Z")
…I have to say seasons 6 and 7 are leaps and bounds above season 4 and are on par with Season 5. Seasons 2 and 3 are the best. And Season 1 is a mix of decent and middling…but’s it’s only a half season. Storyteller and Him are two of, in my opinion, the best episodes ever. And both were incredibly funny. ---
**Author:** ![Nordic\_Pacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/77aa72/32.png) [@Nordic\_Pacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nordic_Pacer)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/69 "2003-05-07T21:14:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeVena \* > \*\*But if anyone has the full text of Spike’s speech to Buffy, I’d really love to get it. It was just perfect. \*\* I’ll second that request. Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/70 "2003-05-07T21:30:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Carter the Great \* > \*\*Why should he hide it? It’s the FUCKING END of the WORLD! They are in the middle of a war. There’s no reason to play proper for the kiddies. This isn’t Giles First Season. This is Giles in war mode. \*\* Geez. Lighten up buddy. Caps and rude language…’ At the end of season five, when they were in war mode, as you say, and trapped inside that gas station - why did Giles hide it then. They were in a middle of a war then, as they are now. Even more so, being under attack. Rude language and poor reasoning is not going to change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/71 "2003-05-07T21:43:13Z")
Plus, the world is ending all the time: every season. Worse, it’s not even that the First has as of yet demonstrated that it is bigger and badder than any other BB. It’s claimed it once of twice, but up till Caleb, all it’s plots against the Scoobs have been lame washouts. And as for Caleb, both Adam and Glory were the same thing to Buffy anyway: super-powered creatures that normal Buffy just can’t beat hand to hand. ---
**Author:** ![Carter\_the\_Great](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Carter\_the\_Great](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carter_the_Great)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/72 "2003-05-07T22:23:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\*Geez. Lighten up buddy. Caps and rude language…’ > > At the end of season five, when they were in war mode, as you say, and trapped inside that gas station - why did Giles hide it then. They were in a middle of a war then, as they are now. Even more so, being under attack. > > Rude language and poor reasoning is not going to change my mind. \*\* …oh geez… Okay first of all. We’re all adults here… and considering that there is a thread titled “What celebrity would you fuck.” I am willing to bet I’m not the first person to swear on this site. And secondly, typing in all caps DOES NOT equal yelling. This is the stupidest piece of net culture since “Commisoner Gordon has a beer and cheats on his wife” or bonsai kittens. Caps are used for EMPHASIS. Is there something wrong with that? …And like I said… there’s no reason to hide it from the kids anymore. They have been trying to establish that this isn’t “just another Apocalypse” this isn’t a Mayor turned Demon, or an evil Vampire trying to destroy the world… it’s not even a mad God from another dimension…they are fighting the personification of EVIL…oh sorry… didn’t mean to add emphasis. Giles is clearly angry when he slits the Bringer’s throat after the Bringer starts going on and on about how they will kill the girls… You know what that scene was like? Season 3 when Giles STABS the Mayor after he threatens Buffy… I’m sorry… but was that out of character for Giles as well? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/73 "2003-05-07T22:49:18Z")
> [@](#): > > When Faith returned and she nd Spike shared that moment in the basement, when Buffy walked in unexpectedly, they were about to go at it. It was heavily implied. Why would Spike even consider that, if Buffy is his lobster\*? Spike would never, ever, ever, ever, ever consider sleeping with Faith. Flirting? Maybe. BUt he’s a one woman man, always has been, and always will be, and his woman is Buffy. Why would he consider sleeping with Faith after everything he’s been through with Buffy (I mean, jesus, he was weeping when she rescued him. Her words are what kept ihm alive through the fun torture) when he wouldn’t even run away with Dru when Buffy hated him? The writers, for some reason this season, seem to really be big on the jealousy/triangle thing. First it was Wood in First Date, then Faith in Dirty Girls. Nothing serious. elf, all I mean is everytime youdon’t like something, you write it off with “oh, it’s just for the shippers.” Guess what? Joss doesn’t _care_ about the shippers. Joss doesn’t _like_ the shippers. If we get our little big of happiness (and by “we” I mean any shipper of any relationship that has ever existed ever)it’s either A)An accident B)A prelude to a horrible catastrophe or C)Simply fits into his story. (B and C, of course, can both happen). I still stand by my statement—there are no Food or Killow shippers. Not enough to have a whole episode for, even if he was determined to give people what they want. (It’s about what the audience needs, after all, instead of what they want. Which is why I think he had two shows fail this year, and a third one on the bubble…) Here is the dialogue. > [@](#): > > You listen to me. I’ve been alive a bit longer than you, and dead a lot longer than that. I’ve seen things you couldn’t imagine, and done things I’d prefer you didn’t. Don’t exactly have a reputation for being a thinker. I follow my blood, which, doesn’t exactly rush in the direction of my brain. So I make a lot of mistakes, a lot of wrong bloody calls. 100 plus years and there’s only one thing I’ve ever been sure of… you. Hey, look at me. I’m not asking you for anything. When I say I love you it’s not because I want you, or because I can’t have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I’ve seen your kindness, and your strength. I’ve seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You’re one hell of a woman. You’re the one, Buffy. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/74 "2003-05-07T23:05:09Z")
Regarding the axe - and I hope it’s past the time for spoiler boxes. If it’s not, you have my apologies, but nobody else seems to be using them now. The axe has already been seen in the comic spin-off Fray; Urkonn gives it to Melaka at the beginning of issue 6. It _is_ a mystical weapon forged for the sole use of the Slayer - it’s a short-handled axe with the lower half of the haft fashioned into a stake - but more than that, it also serves as a battle standard for the Slayer. If the Slayer felt the need to wave a flag, that’s what she’d be waving. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/75 "2003-05-07T23:11:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Spike would never, ever, ever, ever, ever consider sleeping with Faith. Like he’d never consider sleeping with Anya? Spike even admitted to Buffy that his blood often flows away from his brain, but that’s what I like about him, he’s a bad boy! _makes Austin Powers Grrrr noise_ ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/76 "2003-05-07T23:14:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Joss doesn’t _care_ about the shippers. Joss doesn’t _like_ the shippers. I wish Joss would just _ignore_ the shippers, then, instead of baiting them all the time. Because those of us who are not shippers (and who don’t hate the shippers, mind you – and by those of us, I mean me – are tired of watching a show that used to be clever and hip and a great example of termite art turn into a long game of Outwitting the Internet Fans. I am not criticizing the shippers, here. I am criticizing the author for paying attention to the shippers, even in the sense of wanting to make them suffer. > [@](#): > > Here is the dialogue. I spent most of the episode slowly coming to the realization that I really just don’t care any more – my emotional investment in the show has been leaking away since sometime in season 6, and it’s pretty close to gone now. This makes me sad. Anyway, Spike’s speech was great, though, because he gave himself a spot-on character analysis and identified why I’ve never liked Spike (the character) as much as I do Angel (the character). Angel (and Angelus) are brooders and thinkers and big on analysis. Spike is, well, not. Don’t get me wrong, though, they’re both great characters to have around. I wouldn’t want Spike to change and be not-Spike. (He seems to be one of the few characters who hasn’t lost the Certain Something that made him what he is, actually.) But I don’t really identify with him; his personality annoys me, which is part of why I like him better as an antagonist than moral support. He annoys me as an ally the way Xander used to before his character dried up and became dull. That said, I get the Spike worship. I just don’t share it. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/77 "2003-05-07T23:23:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Like he’d never consider sleeping with Anya? Spike even admitted to Buffy that his blood often flows away from his brain, but that’s what I like about him, he’s a bad boy! _makes Austin Powers Grrrr noise_ Right, except at the point he slept with Anya he was hurt, drunk, and Buffy and told him to “move on” and that he only thought he loved her, it was “real to him.” Spike is a rash guy. You know the line from Mack the Knife–“Could it be our boy’s done something rash?” I think of him everytime I hear that line. I think in Entropy and Seeing Red we saw a man who was at the lowest point emotionally and mentally, and of course, drunk. However, in Dirty Girls, a full year later, he’s nowhere at that point. He understands where he fits in in Buffy’s life (“The mission come first”) he knows that she had no part in the plot to kill him, he knows she believes in him, he knows she saved him repeatedly, and he knows that he loves her, and that he’s important to her. He’s already rejected Anya twice this year (“But it’s my bone!”) Would 6X18 Spike bone anything that offered? Well, yeah. We know he did. Would 7X18 consider sleeping with somebody else? No, he would not. He has no reason to. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/78 "2003-05-07T23:29:00Z")
The thing I’m most looking forward to next week (or the week after) is Spike and Angel encountering one another. Even if it just ends up being a glance across a room full of combat, it will be priceless. If they actually get to talk, it’ll be even better. That is, as long as the writers realize how important that encounter should be. I have read no spoilers, so I don’t know if the two ensouled deaders will be put in the same room at any point. But they should. If I were writing it, I’d have Spike start off with a snarky comment like, “So, you still use that same hair gel?” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/79 "2003-05-07T23:42:07Z")
I’m sort of in the middle of everybody on this. Decent episode, not great, not horrible. I don’t hate Kennedy, but I don’t find her particularly exciting, either. I’m not thrilled at the idea of Spike and Buffy finding Twoo Wuv together, but I can sort of see it happening. Likewise I can sort of see Faith and Wood hooking up, but I can sort of not see it also. I think the SITs are kind of fun to have around, but I think the writers could be handling them better. And so on. But I did laugh out loud once last night, when Kennedy was playing the “bait.” That line from Giles about her convincing performance as a disgruntled minion, and her response about the “method,” was clearly Joss & Co telling the Kennedy haters to blow off. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364/80 "2003-05-08T00:24:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Carter the Great \* > [BOkay first of all. We’re all adults here… and considering that there is a thread titled “What celebrity would you fuck.” \ Caps are used for EMPHASIS. Is there something wrong with that? \*\* If you want to add emphasis, there _is_ a nifty **coding** at this board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-06-05-03-touched-spoilers/173364.md?page=5)