# Buffy 5/14 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116 "2002-05-15T00:05:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/21 "2002-05-15T05:34:29Z")
Buffy is very principled: she is here to slay demons, not kill miscreant humans. Witness her pangs of guilt when she was going put herself in jail, thinking that _she_ killed Katrina, Warren’s ex-girlfriend and first victim. Damn, they made Willow very powerful, without her having Wish spells. I’m not sure how Buffy can beat her. This situation reminds me of an episode of _Xena_, her daughter Eve surrendered herself to the Amazons because of what she did as the Roman legionaire Lidia. Eventually, the Amazons decreed that “Lidia will dead, so that Eve can live”. Maybe something similar will happen to Willow. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Green\_Fool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mr.Green\_Fool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Green_Fool)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/22 "2002-05-15T05:58:45Z")
I liked it… despite the horrible dialogue and writing. It must have been the visuals. What was up with Anya’s outfit? It looked almost like a real person’s outfit. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/23 "2002-05-15T06:04:47Z")
Here’s a thought about Warren: Since he wasn’t killed by natural means, and Willow is at some demi-god level, maybe she can bring Warren back over and over to kill him as many times as she likes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/24 "2002-05-15T06:14:21Z")
I think that since Willow is human people she kills have to stay dead (at least if you want Osiris to help). They mean natural order as in “People kill other people.” Buffy’s death by way of sealing a hole in reality was unnatural because the hole was. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/25 "2002-05-15T06:14:26Z")
I was just telling my roommate that the board has suggested both possibilities we’d discussed: That Spike gets un-vamped and becomes William again, and that Spike gets up-amped and becomes a Big Bad to be reckoned with. She came up with a horrible, gut-wrenching angst-pile of an idea. I hesitate to write it for fear that Weadon or Noxon will read it and use it. Ah, what the hell. Here it is: Spike regains his humanity and returns to Sunnydale. He shows up when Buffy is caught up in one of her ‘bad days.’ She has decided that she really is tired of Spike the Romantic Vampire. And stakes him. And is really surprised when he just dies, without turning to dust. Guilt runs rampant for the rest of the series run. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/26 "2002-05-15T06:17:57Z")
It’ll be interesting to see how (if?) Buffy bests Willow. I mean, she bellowed in the face of Osiris tonight and made him howl in pain. Much goodness awaits. ---
**Author:** ![BooBoo316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@BooBoo316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BooBoo316)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/27 "2002-05-15T06:45:50Z")
Please, Josh, please, don’t un-vamp Spike. Let him get the chip removed and come back in all his demon glory. I think he would make a great Big Bad for next season. I would absolutely love it if he came back and royally kicked Xander’s pansy ass for all the times that he abused Spike while knowing he couldn’t fight back. That crap kinda ruined Xander for me…how brave do you have to be to pound on someone who can’t defend himself? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/28 "2002-05-15T11:17:01Z")
I enjoyed how Spike was being ridiculed by the demon for exactly the same things that so many fans had been complaining about. 😃 Next week should be fantastic, I wish they had brought this plot line into play a few weeks ago, I was getting really bored. I’m finally as excited about Buffy as I’ve been about Angel. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/29 "2002-05-15T12:30:25Z")
Indeed. And **BooBoo** , it’s _Joss_, and Spike is eeeeevil. You know, murdering people, ruining lives and being a pain in the ass for more than 100 years. I think some poking-fun-at is in order. Who best to do it that the only powerless and generally loserish Xander? Anywho, I agree. I was nervous and jittery during an ep for the first time in almost two seasons! This was really something. I hate to bring it up, as so many others already have, but I absolutely _love_ the fact that Willow is becoming more like evil Willow. It doesn’t hurt that completely flipping Allyson Hannigan’s character from a fluffy bunny to a psychopath really shows her range. Plus she’s sexy. That never hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/30 "2002-05-15T12:58:46Z")
Here’s my question: Why couldn’t Anya just get Willow to wish none of that ever happened? It’s totally within her realm of power, I think. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/31 "2002-05-15T13:07:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*And then there were two… so I imagine Willow wants to get the other two… think she’ll get either of them before Buffy can stop her? \*\* That’s what I said last night when watching it, but then I thought . . . what if she meant, “And then there were two _Scoobies_?” Tara’s dead, Giles is gone, Angel is doing his thing in L.A., Anya’s back to being a vengeance demon, Dawn isn’t really part of the whole thing . . . if Willow has decided to play by her own rules (“I’m not coming back.”), Xander and Buffy are all that’s left. Interesting. > [@](#): > > Buffy is very principled: she is here to slay demons, not kill miscreant humans. Witness her pangs of guilt when > she was going put herself in jail, thinking that she killed Katrina, Warren’s ex-girlfriend and first victim. On the other hand, she had no problem when she wanted to stick a knife into Faith to bleed her and cure Angel. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/32 "2002-05-15T13:23:23Z")
That was my thought too- Anya is the writer’s back door. Although the question is does the wish have to be about **vengence** rather than mere **restoration**? Another about face for the writers- now magic=power=corruption. My guess is that Warren was still alive (somewhat) while skinned, and stayed that way until burned extra-crispy. Of course, if someone wished to Anya that Willow loses her magic ability it would be a realllllllly short season finale. Spike clearly intends to try to be the next big bad (hopefully **finally** sticking a fork in the “spike is not really evil” argument), but the question is whether he will get his wish. However with the rumors: (spoilerish) That next season is the last. Spike might be the last Big Bad and a more fitting villan for one last saving of the world. Watch spiky-poo get dusted in the series finale. You heard it here first. 😉 _-me_ ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/33 "2002-05-15T13:57:35Z")
I’m just appalled. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/34 "2002-05-15T14:02:36Z")
Feh! Feh, I say! I’m not saying it may not be so, but if Spike truly does become the Big Bad for the last season, it will be very emotionally-oriented towards Buffy. After all, we know he doesn’t want to destroy the world … he could have seen that done years ago with Angelus. [scottman’s hat on] Ah, wheel, ah guess wheel find oot aboot tha’ whan it happuns. [scottman’s hat off] ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/35 "2002-05-15T14:03:47Z")
I’m just appalled. ---
**Author:** ![stankow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@stankow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stankow)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/36 "2002-05-15T14:07:44Z")
“And then there were two”? I missed that line. I caught “One down,” but when was “And then there were two”? ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/37 "2002-05-15T14:08:43Z")
Feh! Feh, I say! I’m not saying it may not be so, but if Spike truly does become the Big Bad for the last season, it will be very emotionally-oriented towards Buffy. After all, we know he doesn’t want to destroy the world … he could have seen that done years ago with Angelus. [scottman’s hat on] Ah, wheel, ah guess wheel find oot aboot tha’ whan it happuns. [scottman’s hat off] ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/38 "2002-05-15T14:36:32Z")
Feh! Feh, I say! I’m not saying it may not be so, but if Spike truly does become the Big Bad for the last season, it will be very emotionally-oriented towards Buffy. After all, we know he doesn’t want to destroy the world … he could have seen that done years ago with Angelus. [scottman’s hat on] Ah, wheel, ah guess wheel find oot aboot tha’ whan it happuns. [scottman’s hat off] ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/39 "2002-05-15T14:37:59Z")
She said “two to go,” I beleive. I just mixed in the apocryphal “and then there were _x_” line. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116/40 "2002-05-15T14:39:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\* > > That’s what I said last night when watching it, but then I thought . . . what if she meant, “And then there were two _Scoobies_?”\*\* Actually, Willow said, “One down.” Here’s a question I have: Does Willow just “have” all of her witchy power (i.e., she was born with it, but it didn’t come out until later) or is she channeling it from some more powerful source? If it’s the latter, will she get “cut off” and just be an ordinary person? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-5-14/109116.md?page=3)