# Buffy Fans: Do You Like Seasons Six and Seven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 20, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309 "2010-07-20T02:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/41 "2010-07-21T21:36:45Z")
I liked ALL Buffy shows. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/42 "2010-07-21T23:27:58Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > And it never stuck. Every glimmer of Xander maybe not being everyone’s bitch was crushed. In the Dracula episode he says something like “I’m tired of being everyone’s butt boy,” or, something like that, and it was another time I thought that he would toughen up a bit. But he never really does. Until he saves the world at the end of Season 6, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/43 "2010-07-21T23:49:42Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > I didn’t find her that way at all, but I can see where you’re coming from. Perhaps I get the idea that Willow’s widely liked because so many Buffy fans I know are lesbians - though they liked her before she came out too; she fits a particular type. Or perhaps it’s just that so many geeky women watching would identify with her more than a former cheerleader like Buffy. Oh, mostly I was just calling Willow evil. (Again; I’ve done it about 2,494,404 time.) Being me, I don’t mean that as a _criticism_. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/44 "2010-07-22T00:18:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Oh, mostly I was just calling Willow evil. (Again; I’ve done it about 2,494,404 time.) Being me, I don’t mean that as a _criticism_. Oh, right. Being evil doesn’t seem to be a hindrance to a character being likable or liked. I kinda liked the Mayor, even though he really was an evil bastard. Being funny is the main requirement, really. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/45 "2010-07-22T04:00:04Z")
Side question (ignore if you want): I know people refer to it as Willow coming out, but didn’t she really more switch? I finally saw another episode, and it was Season 1, episode 7 (where Buffy finds out Angel is a vampire). She had a huge crush on one of the main guys, but was too shy to say anything. Or do you think she was just covering? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/46 "2010-07-22T06:43:06Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Addicts don’t do these things, and so that is a warning sign that they’re going off the rails.. Willow was still doing these things, she was just using magic to speed up the process if a need arose (she was running late, there was a surprise need). I don’t see this as any different from using a dishwasher instead of washing dishes by hand. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/47 "2010-07-22T06:53:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Side question (ignore if you want): I know people refer to it as Willow coming out, but didn’t she really more switch? I like to call it “graduating”. 😃 Seriously though, it’s clear she’s pretty heavily hetero with some bi tendencies until Tara, at which point she denounces all her heteroness and becomes solely homo (as evidenced by her interactions with Amy, and her comments to Xander at his wedding about them both being in formal wear). I think it’s one of those things you just aren’t supposed to examine too closely. Not that it doesn’t happen in real life. I think in Willow’s case, she’s bisexual, with gradually changing preference. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/48 "2010-07-22T07:21:17Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Until he saves the world at the end of Season 6, of course. Yes, he saves it with the power of hippie. Good for him. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/49 "2010-07-22T07:26:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Side question (ignore if you want): I know people refer to it as Willow coming out, but didn’t she really more switch? I finally saw another episode, and it was Season 1, episode 7 (where Buffy finds out Angel is a vampire). She had a huge crush on one of the main guys, but was too shy to say anything. Or do you think she was just covering? I’ve always thought that Willow’s coming out was rather hamfisted. As you point out Willow had crushes on boys with Xander being her unrequited love in the first season and then there’s the fulfilling romantic relationship with Oz starting in season 3. I don’t think we ever had any indication that Willow leaned in that direction until Tara was introduced. No, the episode with evil vampire Willow doesn’t count. Once they decided Willow was a lesbian I thought they handled the romance rather well. (Really hot scene in Once More with Feeling where I’m pretty sure Willow goes down on Tara…) Of course being a romantic relationship we know things won’t end well because Whedon hates happy relationships. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/50 "2010-07-22T12:19:02Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I think in Willow’s case, she’s bisexual, with gradually changing preference. Wasn’t anything gradual about it - she was very hetero (at one time, she was two-timing Oz with Xander), then one day, presto-chango, “Hello? Gay now!” And there’s nothing to say that she’ll won’t be all like “Hello? Hetero now!” in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/51 "2010-07-22T13:15:33Z")
The sixth season was fine. The tone started to get a bit darker, but the characters were still interacting with each other in meaningful and interesting ways. The seventh, on the other hand…my least-favorite development in any show, and the one that writers (even Joss, it seems) will inevitably turn to if given enough time, is when all the characters are rendered useless and unable to have any meaningful effect on the plot, and are left to sit around and be emo about it for episode after episode. Take that formula, throw in _even more_ unnecessary character tension created by adding an extraneous houseful of bitchy teenage girls, and you’ve got Buffy, Season Seven. I mean, for God’s sake, WHY? ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/52 "2010-07-22T14:18:06Z")
Let’s not also forget that in Where the Wild Things Are, Willow said she used to have a crush on Giles. I’d say she is bi. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/53 "2010-07-22T14:24:00Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Oh, right. Being evil doesn’t seem to be a hindrance to a character being likable or liked. I kinda liked the Mayor, even though he really was an evil bastard. Being funny is the main requirement, really. There’s varieties of evil. The Mayor would make a good drinking buddy, and I’d be pleased to go to a cookout at his place; if I were having personal problems, he’d be a good source of advice. Willow’s interesting to watch, and I don’t mean that in a sexual way. But as a friend? Nosiree. Don’t trust her. She’s as bitchy as Cordelia at her worse, except that Cordy, for the most part, was up front about her bitchery. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/54 "2010-07-22T15:47:44Z")
Is that a blanket statement about Willow, **Skald** , or one based on her actions in the 2nd half of the show’s run? For Willow seasons 1-3, I don’t get that at all. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/55 "2010-07-23T16:30:17Z")
I liked both seasons, just not nearly as well as the first 5. Season 7 had enough content for 2 seasons. It would have been better to stretch out the plotline-tying up a bit. It felt rushed. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309/56 "2010-07-23T19:04:33Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Is that a blanket statement about Willow, **Skald** , or one based on her actions in the 2nd half of the show’s run? For Willow seasons 1-3, I don’t get that at all. Willow’s descent into evil starts in 3, actually, though there it only comes off as youthful recklessness. If you stop watching before season five, she’s not evil at all; if you watch all 7 seasons, I think it’s clear that she’s not terribly nice for years before she tries to destroy the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-fans-do-you-like-seasons-six-and-seven/547309.md?page=2)