# Buffy newbie here - question about Slayers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090 "2006-01-09T03:33:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/41 "2006-01-10T09:26:08Z")
> [@Tarrsk](#): > > I’ve always seen “Little Bad” used to refer to the minor “arc” villain that appears throughout each season: the Annoying One (S1), Spike and Drusilla (S2), Mister Trick (S3), etc. The Little Bad in Season 6 was therefore the Troika, while the Big Bad was, as Joss et al. stated, “life itself.” Hm. I haven’t. That doesn’t make as much sense to me either; what WOULD you call the per-episode obstacle then? The seasonal-obstacle and the episode-obstacle make binary sense, little/big-wise. A nebulous possible middle ground seems more ill-defined to me and not the best use of the big/little dichotomy. I wonder if you misinterpreted? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/42 "2006-01-10T11:27:30Z")
> [@Wikipedia](#): > > Big Bad is […] the name for the most important villain fought during one season by the show’s protagonists. Similarly, the term Little Bad [refers] to a less important villain that was fought throughout the course of the season. Often, but not always, the Little Bad is an agent of the Big Bad. Again often, but not always, the Big Bad is defeated in a climatic season finale. > > As a rule, there is only one Big Bad, even though it may be a duo or trio of villains, but they need to work closely together, if not one of them is a Little Bad. There can be more than one Little Bad; it is in fact not very uncommon. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big\_and\_little\_bad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_and_little_bad) This matches the definition I am familiar with, meaning, for example, that Spike and Drusilla were S2’s Little Bad whereas Angel was the Big Bad. The per-episode villains were, to use the nomenclature of _Star Trek_, foreheads of the week. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/43 "2006-01-10T12:09:39Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > The per-episode villains were, to use the nomenclature of Star Trek, foreheads of the week. And to use the nomenclature of _Buffy_, they were \*\*Monsters \*\* of the Week (MotWs). I’ve never heard them referred to any other way. “Little Bads” were, indeed, Spike and Dru, Mr. Trick, The Troika, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/44 "2006-01-10T12:13:57Z")
Indeed. I just prefer forehead of the week. What’s good for the goose and so on and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/45 "2006-01-10T12:15:49Z")
Oops, that did sound corrective, didn’t it? Nope, just clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/46 "2006-01-10T12:43:03Z")
“Trio” not “Troika”. They gave themselves that name - why alter it? ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/47 "2006-01-10T15:03:44Z")
> [@June](#): > > (Angel Season 1 Spoiler ahead) > > Except for the death of Doyle. That was simply unforgivable. I’m still in shock. I really, really liked that character. Comment on your spoiler: Conventional wisdom on this is that Doyle’s death was driven by behind the scenes considerations and not just a desire to shock the audience. Specifically that they discovered Glenn Quinn (the actor who played Doyle) had drug problems after they had hired him and started shooting, and it was affecting the work, so they had to write him out. At the time Joss claimed otherwise, that it was always planned, it was done for story reasons, etc, but he may have just been protecting Quinn. And then Quinn died of a drug overdose a few years later which lends some credence to the theory. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/48 "2006-01-10T15:25:10Z")
OTOH (Angel Season One spoilers) I always disliked the character of Doyle. Killing him off was the best thing they could have done that season, IMO. I allowed them to shake the show up a bit, leave people wondering what they would do next, and allowed them to bring in Wesley, which was a much deeper character played by a much better actor. The Masters of Pain that are Mutant Enemy did their jobs very well, and we lined up to be hurt. As for Priam’s spoiler for Season 5: I didn’t miss Cordy until she came back. All the Mother of Jasmine crap left me cold. What we got in “You’re Welcome” was the old Cordelia. She will always be missed. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/49 "2006-01-10T19:20:26Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > “Trio” not “Troika”. They gave themselves that name - why alter it? I’m pretty sure I’ve heard them refer to themselves as the Troika during season 6. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/50 "2006-01-10T19:21:51Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > “Trio” not “Troika”. They gave themselves that name - why alter it? Speaking of which, I’ve been wondering… where did the name “Troika” come from, anyway? It’s never used in the show itself (they’re always referred to as the “Trio,” even in Season 7), but it’s common enough that the showrunners _and_ the actors themselves have used the term. ---
**Author:** ![Phantom\_Dennis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/51bf81/32.png) [@Phantom\_Dennis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phantom_Dennis)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/51 "2006-01-10T21:57:36Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > This is known in Buffyspeak as “the Big Bad” and “the Little Bad.” The Big Bad is the season-long arc; the Little Bad is the per-episode obstacle. I remember the debate among Buffyheads for most of Season 6 was about who was going to emerge as the Big Bad for the season. One of the reasons it’s my favorite. Buffyspeak. Yeah, Wheden’s shows have definitely developed their own little subculture, complete with esoteric terms. Makes me wish I was part of the scene while it was still fresh, rather than 5-7 years later. I would have gone completely nuts over these shows in my college days (as opposed to my current state of partial nuttiness). Any other terms I should know about? I know what a Browncoat is. I don’t think I am one, but that might change after I discover Firefly and get pissed off at how quickly it was cancelled. More Angel Season 1 Spoilers, for those keeping track: > [@Amok](#): > > Conventional wisdom on this is that Doyle’s death was driven by behind the scenes considerations and not just a desire to shock the audience. Specifically that they discovered Glenn Quinn (the actor who played Doyle) had drug problems after they had hired him and started shooting, and it was affecting the work, so they had to write him out. At the time Joss claimed otherwise, that it was always planned, it was done for story reasons, etc, but he may have just been protecting Quinn. And then Quinn died of a drug overdose a few years later which lends some credence to the theory. That certainly clears things up. Too bad Quinn died so young. I thought he had potential. Or maybe I was just charmed by that Dublin brogue. I guess Wesly’s slowly starting to grow on me. He still feels like “one-dimensional comic relief guy”, but I guess Xander was in the same position in Buffy Season 1, and now he’s one of my favorite characters (kind of a meaningless statement since almost every character on Buffy/Angel is “one of my favorite characters”). ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/52 "2006-01-10T22:09:41Z")
**June** , what season of Angel are you on? because by season 3 Wesley gets very deep. As for Glenn Quinn, he played Becky’s love interest on **Roseanne** , and had a great deal of trouble concealing his accent ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/53 "2006-01-10T22:39:06Z")
> [@June](#): > > Any other terms I should know about? Buffy’s friends are known collectively as “the Scoobies.” never liked the term myself but since they occasionally refer to themselves as such I guess I’m stuck with it. Angel’s cohorts are known collectively as “the Fang Gang” and I think also something like “the Ministers of God” which I never quite understood. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/54 "2006-01-10T23:01:12Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big\_and\_little\_bad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_and_little_bad) > > This matches the definition I am familiar with, meaning, for example, that Spike and Drusilla were S2’s Little Bad whereas Angel was the Big Bad. The per-episode villains were, to use the nomenclature of _Star Trek_, foreheads of the week. Hmm. Well, I still disagree. In my circles, “little bad” refers to the per-episode obstacle. True, some of them rise above the noise, and some of them return for more than one episode–as in your examples–but the demonic roommate who liked Celine Dion was as much a little bad, in my understanding of the term, as Drusilla. She was just not a recurring little bad. Since the term is used that way among the circles I discuss Buffy with, it appears there is some variance in the usage. It will be interesting to see which usage shakes out over time. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/55 "2006-01-10T23:19:12Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I dont’ know how much of it was WB vs. UPN, but the show finally grew up after the switch. Season 6 is some of the best television on television in the history of television. I was delighted to find that I greatly enjoyed season 6, after having been warned by many that it wasn’t any good. Were there giant season 6 vs the world threads in the past? Anyone got a link to one? > [@June](#): > > A general observation: I’ve noticed that there’ve been a lot of new Buffy/Angel posts in Cafe Society lately, and I have a feeling that this is part of a recent growing trend. Unfortunately I think these shows fell under the radar for a lot of potential fans when they were actually on the air, and now that people like HazelNutCoffee and I are discovering them for the first time, we’re anxious to talk about them. I’ve noticed that too. I’d guess that much of it’s due to Firefly fans who decided to see what else Joss had done, and the recent release of the complete Buffy set at a very reasonable price. ---
**Author:** ![Phantom\_Dennis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/51bf81/32.png) [@Phantom\_Dennis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phantom_Dennis)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/56 "2006-01-10T23:34:13Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > **June** , what season of Angel are you on? because by season 3 Wesley gets very deep. > > As for Glenn Quinn, he played Becky’s love interest on **Roseanne** , and had a great deal of trouble concealing his accent I’m just finishing up with Season 1, so I’ve only seen Wesley in a handful of episodes. I’m looking forward seeing the character fleshed out a bit – I like the actor – it’s just that I haven’t had much chance to establish an emotional connection to his role, and he hasn’t done much yet but bumble around. ---
**Author:** ![Phantom\_Dennis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/51bf81/32.png) [@Phantom\_Dennis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phantom_Dennis)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/57 "2006-01-10T23:40:59Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > I’ve noticed that too. I’d guess that much of it’s due to Firefly fans who decided to see what else Joss had done, and the recent release of the complete Buffy set at a very reasonable price. Yup. The Chosen Collection I believe it’s called. All seven seasons plus extras for around $140. The best deal I’ve ever seen on a DVD collection, considering that a single season of Deadwood (12 episodes) will set you back 50 bucks. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/58 "2006-01-10T23:50:01Z")
> [@June](#): > > Yup. The Chosen Collection I believe it’s called. All seven seasons plus extras for around $140. The best deal I’ve ever seen on a DVD collection, considering that a single season of Deadwood (12 episodes) will set you back 50 bucks. 40 discs for $169. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/59 "2006-01-11T01:23:07Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Hmm. Well, I still disagree. In my circles, “little bad” refers to the per-episode obstacle. True, some of them rise above the noise, and some of them return for more than one episode–as in your examples–but the demonic roommate who liked Celine Dion was as much a little bad, in my understanding of the term, as Drusilla. She was just not a recurring little bad. Since the term is used that way among the circles I discuss Buffy with, it appears there is some variance in the usage. It will be interesting to see which usage shakes out over time. I have never seen your usage in any of the sites or forums I’ve read but I will concede that Kathy could be called _a_ little bad but not _the_ Little Bad of the fourth season. That would be Professor Walsh and the Initiative. > [@lissener](#): > > 40 discs for $169. Initially $130, which is how much I paid for my set. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/60 "2006-01-11T01:28:26Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > 40 discs for $169. I have to say that I paid $102 for it (actually pre-ordered) through Deep Discount [DVD.com](http://DVD.com). Best $102 I’ve ever spent in my life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090.md?page=4)