# Buffy newbie here - question about Slayers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090 "2006-01-09T03:33:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/61 "2006-01-11T01:30:43Z")
> [@June](#): > > I’m just finishing up with Season 1, so I’ve only seen Wesley in a handful of episodes. I’m looking forward seeing the character fleshed out a bit – I like the actor – it’s just that I haven’t had much chance to establish an emotional connection to his role, and he hasn’t done much yet but bumble around. You are in for such a treat! Wesley is my favorite character on Angel, and he undergoes the best character arc of anyone over the course of the show. To borrow a phrase from an older thread, but one that **Selkie** and I have used in conversation ever since, Wesley grows in a realistic way from a comic relief bumbler to “the hardest man in L.A.”. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/62 "2006-01-11T01:53:28Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Buffy’s friends are known collectively as “the Scoobies.” never liked the term myself but since they occasionally refer to themselves as such I guess I’m stuck with it. Angel’s cohorts are known collectively as “the Fang Gang” and I think also something like “the Ministers of God” which I never quite understood. It’s actually another Television Without Pity quirk. From their FAQ section: > [@](#): > > MoG: “Ministers of Grace,” a collective name for Angel and his sidekicks. It comes from Hamlet, I, iv, 20: “Angels and ministers of grace defend us!” ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/63 "2006-01-11T02:08:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Any other terms I should know about? I know what a Browncoat is. I don’t think I am one, but that might change after I discover Firefly and get pissed off at how quickly it was cancelled. Yeeeeeeeees. Join us… 😉 > [@](#): > > Angel’s cohorts are known collectively as “the Fang Gang” and I think also something like “the Ministers of God” which I never quite understood. I’ve seen them referred to as the “A-Team” as well. > [@](#): > > You are in for such a treat! Wesley is my favorite character on Angel, and he undergoes the best character arc of anyone over the course of the show. To borrow a phrase from an older thread, but one that **Selkie** and I have used in conversation ever since, Wesley grows in a realistic way from a comic relief bumbler to “the hardest man in L.A.”. Seconded (or is it thirded at this point?). Wesley’s also my favorite character, from both shows, and it’s almost entirely because of his incredible character arc. The most impressive thing about it, actually, is that it’s so gradual… there’s no single “turning point.” The changes are entirely in-character and make sense at every step. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/64 "2006-01-11T04:45:53Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I have never seen your usage in any of the sites or forums I’ve read but I will concede that Kathy could be called _a_ little bad but not _the_ Little Bad of the fourth season. That would be Professor Walsh and the Initiative. I agree; according my understanding, there is no “the” little bad, except per episode. Each season starts without an obvious big bad. Little bads abound. Eventually, one of the LBs emerges as the BB. All the rest, are LBs. Sure, some of them are more prominent, and recur in more than one episode, but I don’t see the logic in the hierarchy of “Big Bad . . . Little Bad . . . [episode obstacle].” The binary nature of the terminology makes more sense to me as a description of the two arcs: Seasonal, and epdisodic. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/65 "2006-01-11T07:07:33Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I agree; according my understanding, there is no “the” little bad, except per episode. > > Each season starts without an obvious big bad. Little bads abound. Eventually, one of the LBs emerges as the BB. All the rest, are LBs. Sure, some of them are more prominent, and recur in more than one episode, but I don’t see the logic in the hierarchy of “Big Bad . . . Little Bad . . . [episode obstacle].” The binary nature of the terminology makes more sense to me as a description of the two arcs: Seasonal, and epdisodic. Heh, first of all, I think this whole debate is ultimately a matter of personal opinion, and that we can all use “Little Bad” to refer to whatever we want. 🙂 [spoiler]However, I think a line can be drawn between the monsters of the week (athletic fish-monsters, Reptile Boy, literal loan sharks, etc) and the Little Bads. Every season of Buffy (with the exception of Season 5, unless I’m forgetting someone) has both a Big Bad and at least one other recurring villain who is crucial to the story arc of the season, but is _not_ the main target of the Scoobies: S1: The Annoying One S2: Spike and Drusilla S3: Mr. Trick and Faith S4: The Initiative S5: N/A (though possibly “Life itself”) S6: The Troika S7: Caleb There’s a clear difference in scale between the impact of these villains on the season-long arc and those of the monsters of the week- in several cases, a clearer difference than between the Little Bads and the Big Bad itself.[/spoiler] Again, though, it’s ultimately just a question of nomenclature. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/66 "2006-01-11T08:32:54Z")
are you forgettting from season 5 Glory/Ben, and the Knights of Byzantium? ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/67 "2006-01-11T21:04:51Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > are you forgettting from season 5 Glory/Ben, and the Knights of Byzantium? Ah, right. Forgot about the Knights. I guess… because they’re so forgettable. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/68 "2006-01-11T22:17:51Z")
> [@Tarrsk](#): > > Ah, right. Forgot about the Knights. I guess… because they’re so forgettable. 😛 well more specifically you forgot Glory, the Hell God ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/69 "2006-01-11T22:40:56Z")
> [@Tarrsk](#): > > Speaking of which, I’ve been wondering… where did the name “Troika” come from, anyway? It’s never used in the show itself (they’re always referred to as the “Trio,” even in Season 7), but it’s common enough that the showrunners _and_ the actors themselves have used the term. IIRC, and I may not, a trioka is a term for a sleigh drawn by 3 horses, used in pre-Revolutionary Russia, and now used in modern-speak for a group of 3. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/70 "2006-01-11T22:47:27Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Each season starts without an obvious big bad. Little bads abound. Eventually, one of the LBs emerges as the BB. All the rest, are LBs. Sure, some of them are more prominent, and recur in more than one episode, but I don’t see the logic in the hierarchy of “Big Bad . . . Little Bad . . . [episode obstacle].” The binary nature of the terminology makes more sense to me as a description of the two arcs: Seasonal, and epdisodic. Is this terminology used in the series itself? I’ve heard Spike refer to himself as “Big Bad”, but I don’t remember hearing them talk about “Little Bads” on the show. I’m a new fan - I’m up to season 6 of Buffy and Season 2 of Angel. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/71 "2006-01-12T00:01:41Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > well more specifically you forgot Glory, the Hell God No, Glory is the Big Bad. I was listing the Little Bads. Note how the Master, Angelus, the Mayor, Adam, “Life itself” (S6), and the First aren’t on my list either. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/72 "2006-01-12T00:31:41Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Buffy’s friends are known collectively as “the Scoobies.” never liked the term myself but since they occasionally refer to themselves as such I guess I’m stuck with it. . I never quite understood this reference either; oddly enough, SMG was in the _Scooby Doo_ feature film, but after she began playing Buffy. The wife and I loved BtVS and watched the last few seasons consistently, eagerly awaiting the next ep. Second adolescence or not, I really do miss that show. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/73 "2006-01-12T00:46:09Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I never quite understood this reference either. You are obviously not a child of TV cartoons, then. 😃 [Scooby Doo](http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/scooby/) “Ruh-roh!” ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/74 "2006-01-12T02:10:48Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > You are obviously not a child of TV cartoons, then. 😃 > > [Scooby Doo](http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/scooby/) > > “Ruh-roh!” I thought “Ruh-roh” was what Astro, the Jetson’s dog, always said. Scooby Doo’s speech was only slightly more understandable. And there was that laugh Heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/75 "2006-01-12T02:18:46Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I never quite understood this reference either; oddly enough, SMG was in the _Scooby Doo_ feature film, but after she began playing Buffy. Villian - “I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for those pesky kids!” ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/76 "2006-01-12T02:32:07Z")
> [@Tarrsk](#): > > No, Glory is the Big Bad. I was listing the Little Bads. > > Note how the Master, Angelus, the Mayor, Adam, “Life itself” (S6), and the First aren’t on my list either. 🙂 I seem to be alone (or in a small group) but I consider Dark Willow to be the Big Bad of S6 and the Troika and Life to be the Little Bads ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/77 "2006-01-12T02:42:10Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > I thought “Ruh-roh” was what Astro, the Jetson’s dog, always said. Scooby Doo’s speech was only slightly more understandable. And there was that laugh > Heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee Scooby was Astro’s Great x 13 grandfather. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/78 "2006-01-12T05:05:59Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Angel’s cohorts are known collectively as “the Fang Gang” and I think also something like “the Ministers of God” which I never quite understood. Television Without Pity called Angel’s people, “the Ministers of Grace”, which they got from Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 4: Hamlet: Angels and ministers of grace defend us! ---
**Author:** ![Monkey\_Chews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Monkey\_Chews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monkey_Chews)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/79 "2006-01-12T07:02:02Z")
I’ve also only ever seen/heard/used the term “Little Bad” to refer to the recurring minor villains of the season (such as Spike & Dru, Mr Trick, Professor Walsh, the Trio etc), who rather than the per-episode villains. Part of what I like about them is that it often looks as though they are being set up as the major villain of the piece, but they’re overtaken by something even more dangerous. And I’m with **Aesiron** in considering Dark Willow to be the Big Bad of Season 6. The idea that “Life Itself” is the Big Bad is just about the naffest thing I’ve ever heard come out of Joss Whedon’s mouth. It’s a drama series, life is supposed to be tough, and Buffy’s life was just as difficult in, say, Season 5 or Season 2. “Life Itself”. Gimme a break. It’s like saying “Bad Decisions” was the Big Bad of Angel Season 5. Yeah, maybe that and Wolfram and Freaking Hart! **June** , I am so jealous. I wish I had Angel seasons 2 to 5 ahead of me, unwatched and ready to go. You’re in for a wonderful, exciting, weird ride. Especially when it comes to Wesley, who against all my expectations becomes one of the most fascinating characters in the Buffyverse. Enjoy! Nick ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090/80 "2006-01-12T10:33:51Z")
> [@Tarrsk](#): > > S7: Caleb Don’t forget the UberVamp earlier in Season 7 (not to be confused with the whole army of ubervamps in the last episode, who seemed to be not as strong as the original one was). Season 7 had more sets of Little Bads than most seasons of the show tended to, probably because the Big Bad was, afterall, the First Evil. The Principal at first also looked like he was going to be a Bad of some sort, but it turned out he was in fact one of the White Hats, just with some parental issues to work out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-newbie-here-question-about-slayers/339090.md?page=5)