# Buffy Sainte-Marie‘s Honorary Degree revoked **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2026, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110 "2026-05-16T07:13:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/61 "2026-05-23T02:08:00Z")
I read his comment as speculation, not objective fact. I’m not him, but what I infer from his comment was that she has supplied ammo for her opposition to be able to use, should they decide to use it. But that’s my impression of what he meant, and I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/62 "2026-05-23T02:23:37Z")
You are not wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/63 "2026-05-23T17:12:25Z")
I mentioned this last night in a conversation with a Deaf friend, who pointed out that Sainte-Marie, in _taking work as a Native American_, was _taking opportunities away_ from real Native Americans. And they still struggle now for recognition now, but all the more so in the 60s & 70s. Deaf people are very sensitive to this kind of thing, because of the numerous, usually unqualified, hearing people out there teaching “Sign Language,” and depriving Deaf people of such an opportunity. Among other things. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/64 "2026-05-23T17:32:42Z")
While deaf people doubtless have more experience in using sign language, would that necessarily imply greater ability in teaching it? When an adult is studying a language, they’ll often have occasion to ask their teacher “What’s the word for…” or “How do you say…”, and that would be much more difficult if the teacher can’t communicate in the student’s native language. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/65 "2026-05-23T17:42:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > and that would be much more difficult if the teacher can’t communicate in the student’s native language. I’d imagine most deaf people can read just fine (although I do vaguely recall something about how actually, written English is not identical to ASL, in syntax and grammar and such?). ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/66 "2026-05-23T18:59:41Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > actually, written English is not identical to ASL, in syntax and grammar and such? That is correct. I briefly studied ASL (my teacher was deaf but had no trouble communicating with us; she used an interpreter to facilitate communication with us beginners). I remember very little of what I learned, but it was fascinating! And definitely not just a one-to-one substitution of a gesture for a spoken word. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/67 "2026-05-23T19:43:07Z")
ASL is a sign language in the French Sign Language family and is not related to, let alone “identical to”, English, although, obviously [or maybe not that obviously, since we are not dealing with a written or spoken language], various words can be and are borrowed from English. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/68 "2026-05-23T21:12:08Z")
[Francis Duchouquet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchouquet_Township,_Ohio#Name_and_history) was an English-Indian interpreter, and half Native American (French Indian). His wife was 100% Shawnee, of the Kispoko sept. My great great great grandfather (of German ancestry) married their granddaughter. Not sure what percentage NA that makes me, but probably less than 3%. At any rate, this means Duchouquet (50% NA) and his wife (100% NA) were my great great great great great grandparents. Duchouquet was the interpreter at many treaties, including the Treaty of Greenville. Wapakoneta, Ohio is in Duchouquet Township, which was named after him. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/69 "2026-05-23T23:10:27Z")
First Nations membership is not like radioactive contamination that you can measure with a percentage. E.g., what percentage NA is this guy? [How a non-Indigenous man became a member of the Fort William First Nation | CBC Radio](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-tuesday-edition-1.4054748/how-a-non-indigenous-man-became-a-member-of-the-fort-william-first-nation-1.4054752) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/70 "2026-05-24T00:49:11Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > First Nations membership is not like radioactive contamination that you can measure with a percentage. In the USA it is simple- either you are a member of a Federally Recognized Tribe (FRT). Or you are not. If one of the few FRT has joining the tribe thru adoption and you are adopted- you are now American Indian. Period. Only the FRT decides. Not the BIA, just the tribe. And very few legally adopt outsiders. In fact many tribes are tightening up tribe membership. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/71 "2026-05-24T00:57:47Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > First Nations membership is not like radioactive contamination that you can measure with a percentage. Welcome to the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws). However much it is now kinda disparaged in modern discourse, it has seeped into modern Native American culture nonetheless. If you ever watch the show Reservation Dogs (highly recommended), you’ll see a character reference it just casually in a non-serious context. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/72 "2026-05-24T01:10:38Z")
You can’t measure tribal citizenship by a percentage, but you can measure ancestry that way. It probably doesn’t have any particular significance, but you can measure it. Although some tribes have a “blood quantum” requirement for citizenship, usually somewhere around 1/16 (other tribes don’t put a number on it, either going by any documented ancestry at all, or parents or grandparents being citizens). @Crafter_Man , that’d make you 3/128 native, or a little less than 3%. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/73 "2026-05-24T01:22:09Z")
Somehow I don’t think of “Buffy” as a Native American name. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/74 "2026-05-24T01:24:24Z")
Beverley Jean Santamaria was apparently her birth name. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/75 "2026-05-24T01:27:20Z")
Well, that’s more like it then. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/76 "2026-05-24T01:35:18Z")
And native Americans or First nations often have regular names, they arent always “Littlebear” or something. Could be John Smith, or indeed- Buffy. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/77 "2026-05-24T03:02:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You can’t measure tribal citizenship by a percentage, but you can measure ancestry that way. It probably doesn’t have any particular significance, but you can measure it. Not always that simple when you go back far enough. If you go back 5 generations, there’s a decent chance you don’t share _any_ DNA with a particular g-g-g-grandparent. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/78 "2026-05-24T11:55:28Z")
I said ancestry, not genetic relatedness. You do have that percentage of ancestry. You would, on average, have that percentage of genetics, but it might be higher or lower, or even zero (technically, zero genetics is possible starting from a grandparent, but phenomenally unlikely at that point). Genetics is what’s actually real, but ancestry is much easier to measure, so that’s what humans usually care about. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/79 "2026-05-24T12:08:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And native Americans or First nations often have regular names, they arent always “Littlebear” or something. Could be John Smith, or indeed- Buffy. Especially when it’s a nickname. > [@Chronos](#): > > While deaf people doubtless have more experience in using sign language, would that necessarily imply greater ability in teaching it? Yes, as a matter of fact, because there are tons of crap “sign language” teachers out there (don’t get me started on the YouTube videos). Nobody vets ASL teachers well, and everybody makes your assumption that Deaf people won’t be able to communicate with beginning students, so Deaf people don’t even get interviews. The point is that Saint-Marie probably took opportunities that were meant specifically for Native Americans away from Native Americans. Her successes were essentially losses for genuine Native Americans. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110/80 "2026-05-24T20:09:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Genetics is what’s actually real, but ancestry is much easier to measure, so that’s what humans usually care about. This interviewee suggests that “blood quantum” was not an innocent measure of ancestry or geneology, but rather a highly controversial system introduced by the colonialist government to strangle tribal membership: [https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2018/02/09/583987261/so-what-exactly-is-blood-quantum](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2018/02/09/583987261/so-what-exactly-is-blood-quantum) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-sainte-marie-s-honorary-degree-revoked/1030110.md?page=5)