# Buffy season premiere \[MAJOR SPOILER ALERT\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 24, 2002, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430 "2002-09-24T07:49:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/101 "2002-09-27T15:40:16Z")
Okay, last chance hamsters… or there’s going to be some serious rodent carnage! [QUOTE] \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/102 "2002-09-27T16:19:28Z")
I’m sorry, **Charmian** , but I can’t stop laughing here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/103 "2002-09-27T16:55:14Z")
**Charmian** Long cut and paste jobs into the “quote box” don’t really work as your attempts are shown you. What to do. 1. Copy or cut the text you want. 2. Open the quote Box. 3. Type in a few random letters and hit enter. 4. Select and highlight with your mouse **the random letters only**. Leave the [Quote] functions unhighlighted. 5. Hit CTRL and V at the same time or Paste (ensuring that the random letters you entered are still highlighted. 6. Preview Post to amke sure things are as desired. This works for me 100% of the time, but go ahead and preview it. 7. Submit. The perfect quote which retains it’s formatting and size. 8. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/104 "2002-09-27T17:01:42Z")
Argh, since when did I become Bobo the Typo Posting Monkey? > [@](#): > > as your attempts are shown you “have shown you” > [@](#): > > Preview Post to amke sure things are as desired. The fact I put a typo in this sentence. . . . :smack: Everyone point and laugh at me-- I deserve it. . . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/105 "2002-09-27T17:23:10Z")
Hmm… I’ve watched the episode twice so far, and I don’t remember the bit about the door being slammed… I’ll check again. I do have one beef with the audio. Some characters were talking so quietly that background noise nearly obliterated what they were saying… like Spike’s “i dropped my board in the water and all the chalk ran off. I’m not a fast study.” Annoying! I don’t think we really have to worry about the principal-- after all, the library was above the Hellmouth for years 😉 Now, Spike living underground is a different matter. He’s tormented, and when he had a soul he always was a wuss. I think the key lines came from Willow-- when she said that everything was connected. And just to make sure we all understand, she then went all loopy the second time we saw her, because she realized that even all the Evil is connected to everything else. Which is why Warren is tied up to Glory, Adam, the Mayor, Drusilla, the Master. They’re all evil, from mastermindly to banal. But it’s all connected chilluns, so even the goodiest of the good has got a little evil in her Slayerness. I’m expecting to see a lot of personal torment this season… especially in Buffy. The first Slayer says death is her gift. I think Buffy will be looking to find another present to give the world. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/106 "2002-09-27T18:23:40Z")
Hmm. The evil thing could be the Hellmouth itself. I mean, IIRC, the Hellmouth makes things more evil through random mystical radaiation. Might it be conscious, sentient, and the driving force behind all of the people it morphed into? Think about it. The town being swalloed into hell / devoured by a giant snake demon / having it’s inhabitants used as spare parts would end it. That means no more suffering. Could the Hellmouth be the driving force behind all the conflict? And, before man walked the earth, there were demons. Before the demons, there was the earth. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/107 "2002-09-27T18:38:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarinth \* > \*\*I saw that too - and I hope not, it would annoy me. (Very high on my list of television peeves) \*\* What exactly are you referring to? And SPIKE must be Buffy’s love interest, are you insane? He got his soul so she would love him! (Although I also picked up on Buffy thinking the new principal was hot. He IS!) ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/108 "2002-09-27T18:41:02Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by elf6c \* \*\ ***Charmian** Long cut and paste jobs into the “quote box” don’t really work as your attempts are shown you. \*\* [QUOTE] Actuallly it was a rather short quote and I am solving the problem by getting a big rubber mallet. I’m going to play a game of Whack-a-Mole (of sorts) with the hamsters. If you’ll excuse me, I have some hamster pummelling to do… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/109 "2002-09-27T20:52:34Z")
\*\* Chairman\*\*, little present for you in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/110 "2002-09-27T21:42:24Z")
I can’t imagine “Angel” having NEAR the viewers BTVS does (even though I like the show). It seems foolish for the WB not to want to dangle DB in front of all those BTVS viewers who may not watch his show. Just a thought. [hijack]Drew Carey was doin’ it with a black woman not too long ago(played be the lady who also plays the Lt. on Law and Order) right?[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/111 "2002-09-27T22:20:58Z")
Oops, I mean **Charmain**. sorry, been waxing dyslexic lately. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/112 "2002-09-28T05:00:24Z")
Damn. I **will** learn to spell **Charmian**. Please don’t flame me when you finally get to your Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/113 "2002-09-28T07:28:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*I think it’s clear that the folks at Mutant Enemy put a great deal of effort into maintaining continuity. You can tell by the way they so rarely puncture it. Creating alternate universes doesn’t alter continuity unless it has been previously established that you can’t create alternate universes. […] In fact, just off the top of my head, I can only come up with one continuity break in the show’s last six years: in the season five opener, there’s a throw-away joke about Joyce not knowing that Tara and Willow are gay.[…] \*\* Maybe I should’ve used a better word than “continuity.” I didn’t mean it in the usual movie-continuity sense, where it’s applied to throw-away comments, or what a character’s wearing, or whether a glass of water is 2/3 full or 1/2 full. I meant big, on-going continuity of the characters and their motivations and the major storyline. My point was that it wouldn’t have surprised me to see this season start out with Willow back in Sunnydale, back to normal, and that’s all we hear of it. They would’ve made a mention about how the coven in England rehabilitated her, which would satisfy the type of continuity you mention, but it would’ve seemed out of place for the characters. But I believe the show consistently manipulates the characters (and the audience) to do what their plot dictates. So saying stuff like “Spike wouldn’t have acted like that,” or “Xander never would’ve used a spell that made everyone in the town sing,” is irrelevant – the characters do what the plot needs them to do. That’s not a criticism; it’s actually one of the things I like best about the series. I like how everyone is non-plussed at the mention of evil robots, how vampire attacks are explained away as gas leaks, how they show Cordelia’s getting impaled by a piece of rebar, cutting to a funeral, and then having Buffy and Willow walk past the cemetary saying, “So Cordelia’s going to be fine, right?” I loved how they changed the opening credits for Jonathan’s superhero episode, and how they shoehorned Dawn into the storyline. I just wish they hadn’t made Dawn the whole focus of that season but had instead just said it was an “alternate universe thing” and left it at that. I _like_ the hand-waving stuff, because it emphasizes that these are just characters in a story, and the characters aren’t as important as what the story is trying to say. I think the series starts to break down when they believe that the characters are interesting in and of themselves; they’re not, really – it’s the stuff that happens to them that’s interesting. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/114 "2002-09-28T23:47:12Z")
And I just checked the episode on the frame-by-frame, and that _wasn’t_ Spike (or the actor, even) who shut the door on the fleeing woman at the beginning of the episode. It was some old man, white haired sure, but too old to be Spike. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/115 "2002-09-29T01:52:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*I think it’s clear that the folks at Mutant Enemy put a great deal of effort into maintaining continuity. > > In fact, just off the top of my head, I can only come up with one continuity break in the show’s last six years: in the season five opener, there’s a throw-away joke about Joyce not knowing that Tara and Willow are gay. In the next episode, there’s a throw-away joke that depends on Joyce knowing about it for some time. \*\* Ahem. In Season 3’s “The Wish”, it was made clear that by destroying Anya’s power source, _all of Anya’s wishes would be undone_. It was kind of a key plot point. You remember how the alternate universe was indeed unmade and everything went back to normal? Plus, when they decided to make Anya a recurring character, this provided us an unstated reason why as a human she felt no guilt over what she had done as a demon…no matter how many times she circled the bases, none of her runs scored. Flash forward to Season 6. Who was the guy masquerading as “Future Xander” in “Hell’s Bells”? That was a major, huge, gaping hole in continuity, one of the many reasons I hated S6. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Manda JO \* > \*\*Ok, you heard it here first: > > A group of “monks” is going around killing all the “potential” slayers. (I understand that Spike and Dru did this in one of the novels) > > Dawn has been identified as a “potential” slayer–which dosen’t seem unrealistic, given that she is realated to a slayer in a very strange and profound way. > > Robin Wood is a **watcher** sent to protect, train, watch **Dawn** , but with directions to keep an eye on Buffy as well, since she makes the Council nervous. Thus, we have another watcher sitting on the Hellmouth in Sunnydale High. > > Mark my words, by mid season Principal Wood will be in a situation of stress and/or arousal and slip into an English accent. And the tension between he and Buffy will come from his tendincy to push Dawn into danger. \*\* Some very sharp stuff there. I totally agree with the first part, and the rest sounds quite interesting. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by arisu \* > \*\*Wasn’t the chip supposed render Spike incapable of harming any being with a soul? If so it must not be working any more, since he’s been harming himself. > \*\* It didn’t render him incapable, just gave him a jolt whenver he tried to do it. And since he was trying to hurt himself anyway… What was this “To Serve Man” joke? I totally missed it. ---
**Author:** ![slackergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@slackergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slackergirl)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/116 "2002-09-29T04:33:14Z")
Do you mean you missed it in the episode, or you didn’t get the reference? Dawn said it in the list of things she was looking out for when she ditched Buffy before school. The reference is from a classic Outer Limits episode. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/117 "2002-09-29T04:45:18Z")
Thought it was the Twilight Zone? ---
**Author:** ![slackergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@slackergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slackergirl)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/118 "2002-09-29T04:49:26Z")
Eh, you could be right. They blur in my head a bit. I watched too much of both as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/119 "2002-09-29T12:42:30Z")
It was _Outer Limits_. In fact, the first _OL_ episode I ever saw. Now that I’ve seen the shape Spike is in, I can’t wait for Willow to get back to Sunnydale. I don’t think Spike is going to tell Buffy that he’s got his soul back, at least not in his current mental state, but Willow will probably be able to take one good look into his eyes and see it. Also, in the fearless prediction department, a good chunk of an episode, if not an entire one, will be devoted to Willow helping Spike put his mind back together, as well as freeing him from the influence of TETDITB. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430/120 "2002-09-29T13:57:08Z")
Sorry, **Thea** , but _To Serve Man_ is from _THe Twilight Zone._ Check out [http://www.thetzsite.com](http://www.thetzsite.com) for my cite. It’s a third season episode that first aired on March 2, 1962. It was also voted fan favorite, easily beating out my personal favorite, _The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buffy-season-premiere-major-spoiler-alert/129430.md?page=7)